hmh trv review

[DFoster 0]

7 minutes ago, Mark Knapp said:

Now I'm really curious, what is the diameter of those 5/0 hooks? Thickness of the plastic?

I put the digital micrometer on the 5/0 that George sent me and it came in at .072" so I was able to seat the hook in the middle groove but not in the last groove. However with the plastic protectors the mic indicated  .100" so an increase of 28%. 

[Mark Knapp 0]

Yeah, those 5/0 hooks are measuring almost exactly what my 9/0 hooks measure with no plastic. They're fitting in the vise just like my hooks do. No wonder it's such a challenge to find a vise that will hold them with the plastic. .100" is a huge spread.

Thanks

[DFoster 0]

1 hour ago, SalarMan said:

First, I recognize Charlie Chute using that vise. The HMH Standard has stood the test of time, but some of us get spoiled by all the bells and whistles out there now.

 

Charlie Chute, thank you I couldn't remember his name.  Great Fly Tier!  Love the bottle of Newcastle, no wonder he's really good!

[DFoster 0]

5 minutes ago, Mark Knapp said:

Yeah, those 5/0 hooks are measuring almost exactly what my 9/0 hooks measure with no plastic. They're fitting in the vise just like my hooks do. No wonder it's such a challenge to find a vise that will hold them with the plastic. .100" is a huge spread.

Thanks

Yes - if they were simple steel hooks I could clamp the TRV down and I'm pretty sure they would hold with some effort on my part.  But they have a beautiful, glossy powder coat or painted finish that would be ruined.

[Mark Knapp 0]

If it was easy they'd let everybody do it.

[SalarMan 0]

Okay here is what I got on 5/0 hooks that I have in stock...Gordeaux reworked Mustad - .075" ... Lars Muller Handmade ... .077" ; Ronn Lucas, Sr. handmade - .055" and the plastic was .015" ...doubled means .030". As you can see the hooks vary from maker to maker perhaps for the look they may want to achieve or what some of the many various models may require. Heavy for early season higher water and lighter for lower water later in the year. Just a guess on my part.

The hook used for the Mar Lodge photo I posted above was one from Lars, and as you can see it is quite stout.

By the way Dean...the finish is called Japanning. I believe it is what the British developed 100+ years ago to finish the hooks they were making at the time. I could be wrong on that, but it is what I've been told somewhere along the line.

Great fun with this post guys!!!

[DFoster 0]

6 minutes ago, SalarMan said:

 

By the way Dean...the finish is called Japanning. I believe it is what the British developed 100+ years ago to finish the hooks they were making at the time. I could be wrong on that, but it is what I've been told somewhere along the line.

 

Japanning-  Interesting, I have a real passion for the classic English/Scottish style trout flies.  I read everything I can find on the subject.   I'm familiar with catgut though I've never used it.   I too stick with modern materials as fly fishing can be challenging enough as it is.   Japanning rings a bell but I'm really not to familiar with the term.  Perhaps it was more commonly used on the larger salmon hooks? I will look that one up, thanks for sharing!

[Bazzer69 0]

1 hour ago, DFoster said:

Japanning-  Interesting, I have a real passion for the classic English/Scottish style trout flies.  I read everything I can find on the subject.   I'm familiar with catgut though I've never used it.   I too stick with modern materials as fly fishing can be challenging enough as it is.   Japanning rings a bell but I'm really not to familiar with the term.  Perhaps it was more commonly used on the larger salmon hooks? I will look that one up, thanks for sharing!

Japanning was and still is a finish on fish hooks although today it’s seems to be only on salmon hooks. It’s a black coating to prevent hardened steel hooks from rusting. I believe you can buy it from specialist salmon fly suppliers. When a Japaned hook is put in a vise the finish can be chipped, that is why a salmon hook is often wrapped in a small piece of paper or plastic to prevent damage. 
of course this applies to any vise and not just the TRV

B

[chugbug27 0]

Thanks @SalarMan for the Cotarelli posting. Neat stuff

 

[DFoster 0]

3 hours ago, Bazzer69 said:

Japanning was and still is a finish on fish hooks although today it’s seems to be only on salmon hooks. It’s a black coating to prevent hardened steel hooks from rusting. I believe you can buy it from specialist salmon fly suppliers. When a Japaned hook is put in a vise the finish can be chipped, that is why a salmon hook is often wrapped in a small piece of paper or plastic to prevent damage. 
of course this applies to any vise and not just the TRV

B

Thanks Barry-good to hear from you. Do you know if Japanning is a paint or powder coating or something else?   

[mikechell 0]

Japanning, in carpentry, is black lacquer.  I don't think it's as "strict" a definition on hooks, only that it's a black, shiny coating.

[cphubert 0]

Japanning hooks is with a chemical solution that is very flammable to cook on the stove top, then the finish is applied and oven baked to harden. From what I have heard some of the compounds are hard to acquire and you risk a fire heating the solution. I have never found a recipe for the solution or used it. I would contact Ronn Lucas or another hook maker and see if they would part with it. Suspect like most hook makers they are tight lipped with their craft and machines. Black lacquer is a lot easier. 

[SalarMan 0]

Aaron Ostoj of aofeathers.com used to sell a formula for Japanning hooks with the proviso that the buyer not give it away to anyone else, but just keep it for personal use. I purchased it out of curiosity and cphubert is right, it is very flammable and dangerous to prepare on a stove top. After application to the hook it is indeed baked to harden the finish...which can be a little brittle...hence the need for the protective wrapper of plastic which is preferred over paper. Black lacquer may be easier but it is also more difficult to achieve that SMOOTH shiny finish desired on the hooks.

The story goes that early custom hook maker Eugene Sunday from Michigan...who worked in a Ford Motor Company plant...used to put  his hooks on the assembly line where they were painted and then baked with a black finish. I have some of his hooks, and they do look good!! Truth or urban myth? I don't know, but it is just another bit of history that is part of fly fishing lore.

Finally...I would be very surprised if any of the custom hook makers in today's world would give up their secrets to how they finish their hooks...with the possible exception to someone who is retiring and training the next generation.

[SalarMan 0]

On 7/28/2020 at 9:54 AM, flytire said:

i dont use the hooks you use but i inserted 2 Gamakatsu T10-6H salmon fly hooks into the jaws as far as they would go as shown below

the jaw was opened to its maximum extent

each hook is .035 inches in diameter for a total of .070 inches in diameter (i still have my higher math skills at 67 years old 🤪)

they were inserted between the first and second slots in the vise jaws

 

flytire - What is the vintage of your TRV? Just curiosity on my part.....

[flytire 0]

paid for on 12/14/2018