Fluoridation knots

[strutnstuff 0]

Been steelhead fishing in Erie tribs I have been using Berkley Vanish 2x & Maxims Ultragreen 2x leader as tippet material. I keep having problems of my knots coming undone after hooking a fish. I have tried an improved clinch knot and tried a Pitzen knot. I make sure they are tight. Is this ok for tippet material or should I buy regular fluorocarbon in 2x. If I tighten it to tight it breaks.

[fshng2 0]

Try a blood knot.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Fluorocarbon has different characteristics than monofilament so knots needed to join the two can be tough to do properly. What I have done for years now is either a uni to uni knot connection (with more turns for the mono than for the fluoro) when they're the same size or quite a few more for the lighter line than the heavier (four or five turn uni for the heavy section, eight or nine turns for the lighter section of line....). Your other choice is to go to a Slim Beauty knot... In essence a Slim Beauty is a two or three turn uni knot for the heavy section - then the light side gets a seven turn clinch knot... Look both connections up (go to YouTube as a starting point) then do a bit of practice before heading to the water...

 

Now for a bit of shopwork to show you just how effective your connections are - or aren't... simply tie the leader to a fixed object (I use a fence rail next to my garage) after setting it up on you rod. Now back up until your line starts to come tight and raise the rod slowly until it's full bent to see if the knot fails.. Once it passes that test then back up again with the rod pointing right down the leader until it's tight - then take a half step back until the leader is "banjo string tight" - all while pointing the rod right at your leader so that it's not in play at all. At this point when you've pulled that leader nearly to the breaking point - then bend the rod to the side (pull hard !!) about six inches or so until you fear breaking something... If that knot holds - you've done it right...

 

By the way, what I've just described is only the first part of a routine that I recommend for fly anglers that have a trip planned for giant tarpon...

The fun part is that once you're pulling as hard as you can on your leader - you need to be able to do just that for at least five minutes...

The first thing I do with a new tarpon angler on board my skiff is to take their gear and stress each leader's connections across my chest to verify they'll hold up when we get hooked up to big silver. A surprising number of leaders done by one shop or other (brand new leaders - in many cases brand new fly lines and rods as well...) fail this test and I need to re-tie them to give my angler at least a chance at staying hooked up....

 

Hope this helps

[mikechell 0]

I've heard/read of people reinforcing a knot with a small drop of superglue.

[tjm 0]

I take it that the knot you are having a problem with is the tippet to hook knot?

Several things cause knots to break, but, nylon has better knot strength than fluorocarbon in tests done for Fly Fisherman magazine, so using that material won't fix what's happening.

The Pitzen knot is said to work well only on material smaller than 3X, so that could be part of the problem.

http://www.flyfisherman.com/editorial/2012-tippet-shootout/151716#

https://www.yellowstoneangler.com/gear-review/tippet-shootout-seaguar-grandmax-trouthunter-orvis-mirage-riopowerflex-pline-dairiki-varivas-sa-climax-maxima-froghair-stoft-umpqua

 

In fact as I read the above test, the nylon came out better than fluorocarbon in most things, water absorption being it's biggest "fault". Yet the testers said they still chose to use fluorocarbon...maybe because of great marketing? Fluorocarbon is denser and stiffer than nylon, so may sink slightly faster and cast slightly more accurately.

This article compares nylon and fluorocarbon https://swiftflyfishing.com/blogs/news/15472069-cutting-through-the-bullshit-the-mono-vs-fluoro-debate

 

I suspect you are not tying or setting the knots precisely. Methods to tie many knots;

https://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots
https://howtoflyfish.orvis.com/fly-fishing-knots/
https://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php

 

Which knot? Clinch Knot, Improved Clinch Knot, Duncan Loop/Uni knot, Homer Rhode loop, Davy knot, Double Davy knot, Lefty Kreh nonslip loop, 16-20/Pitzen knot, Palomar knot, Orvis knot, Trilene Knot, and San Diego Jam knot are all knots that have been recommended by someone at some time as the best tippet to fly knot....
You can do the research on each or pick one you like and make it work for you. Maybe the Non-slip-loop would be best for streamers. Try the Orvis knot if you don't want a loop.

https://www.hatchmag.com/articles/3-reasons-you-should-be-using-loop-knots/7711142

https://midcurrent.com/experts/whats-the-best-tippet-to-fly-knot/

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/strong_knots.htm

https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/knot-strength-chart.596379/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chugbug27 0]

If the knot's coming undone, it could also be you are cutting the tag too close to the knot. The line stretches (including in the knot) so you need a little extra hanging off the end of the knot or the end can pull out. Also, at least for the clinch knot, you have to make sure that you seat the knot right by pulling only on the main line an hook and not on the tag. If you pull the tag while you tighten you ruin the shape of the knot and it will come undone when you play a fish. Lastly, for flourocarbon, you say it's breaking on you. If you don't wet it before tightening the knot, flouro will self damage from the friction of being rubbed together. Especially with Flouro, you need to soak the knot with saliva before pulling it tight or the area you've rubbed together will weaken and break.

[Mark Knapp 0]

All good stuff here.

[SilverCreek 0]

 

In fact as I read the above test, the nylon came out better than fluorocarbon in most things, water absorption being it's biggest "fault". Yet the testers said they still chose to use fluorocarbon...maybe because of great marketing? Fluorocarbon is denser and stiffer than nylon, so may sink slightly faster and cast slightly more accurately.

This article compares nylon and fluorocarbon https://swiftflyfishing.com/blogs/news/15472069-cutting-through-the-bullshit-the-mono-vs-fluoro-debate

 

 

 

 

 

Not quite sure what you mean by "Yet the testers said they still chose to use fluorocarbon," in regards to water absorption. Nylon absorbs water and gets weaker. Because water absorption causes nylon to swell, the knots get weaker and nylon itself gets up to 20% weaker. So the preference for fluorocarbon especially for nymphing is not surprising to me.

[fishinguy 0]

Been steelhead fishing in Erie tribs I have been using Berkley Vanish 2x & Maxims Ultragreen 2x leader as tippet material. I keep having problems of my knots coming undone after hooking a fish. I have tried an improved clinch knot and tried a Pitzen knot. I make sure they are tight. Is this ok for tippet material or should I buy regular fluorocarbon in 2x. If I tighten it to tight it breaks.

berkley vanish is junk. I had nothing but problems with it using it on spinning gear in the Erie tribs. I use seguar invisx or sci anglers flouro tippet now.