Flyfishing envy/prejudice

[troutguy 0]

Fly fishing friends don't let friends fish carp.

[mikechell 0]

Well, it's time I chimed in on this thread ... actually, I just saw it this moment. But I have to say, after reading all the previous comments, no one has really hit the nail on the head ... actually, I can't remember all of the posts I just read, some of you snobs can be downright verbose!

But here it is. When I fly fish, I am quite refined and I look down upon all other so called anglers who harvest fish. I know they have merely snagged a fish with their crude sticks and poles.

When I am using spin casting and bait casting equipment for bass, I hate my fly fishing persona with all the power in my barbarian soul. And I loath the bait chuckers as if they were the very worms they fish with.

On the rare occasion I fish with live bait, I try to smear as much worm guts as I can in the face of my snobbish bass fishing persona and in the hair of my elitist fly fishing persona as I can. At least, that's what it looks like by the time I get home.

 

So, I hate myself most of the time ... It's a good thing I love fishing so much !!!

[JSzymczyk 0]

...yet time after time when you see someone insulting someone else fishing style it seems to almost always be the spin/bait fisherman insulting the fly fisherman.

 

That is true in my experience as well,

 

wow, really? I can't tell you the number of times I've heard snide comments from fly fishermen both in print and spoken, about "bait drowners" and "lure chuckers" and other various sub-human methods of catching fish--- just look at how many posts are on this board on the topic of using scents while fishing. The general consensus is that scent is akin to bait fishing, which is far beneath "serious" fly anglers.

 

There is absolutely part of the fly fishing world which is elitist and foolish. We are our own worst enemy, by and large. A few years ago in "Fly Rod and Reel" magazine there was an article about a "chef" in New York City who discovered fly fishing, and he talked about how he immediately went out and bought a river-front estate in the Adirondacks, and considered it "just part of the initial investment" to get into fly fishing. No mention was made of the ego which would justify such an absurd attitude. Yes that's an extreme example, but to me there is no doubt fly fishermen often look down their noses at fishermen of other types.

 

Yes, I prefer to catch fish on fly tackle, but I'm certainly no snob and happily use spinning and trolling tackle too. The last couple years I've gotten very serious about kayak fishing, and there are many circumstances in which fly tackle just doesn't work well. I also make a lot of my own "gear" tackle along with my fly tying addiction. I've been doing it my whole life, and quite often fly tying and lure making blend seamlessly together. I make "inline" spinners (which before too long ago were just called "spinners") and it is all fly tying, dressing the hooks for them, from small trout spinners up to large bucktails for big fish. Also I tie many streamer and other fly patterns on jigs to use on spinning tackle. No worries.

[switch10 0]

How often do you see discarded powerbait packaging, jars of eggs, hundreds of feet of mono laying around popular fishing areas (two weeks ago I almost ripped my waders open on a treble hook attached to a stack of mono...)? Where does all of this come from? Not fly fisherman, I can tell you that...

 

I don't fish many places that allow spin fisherman. Personally, I prefer it that way. I see less dead fish in the water, and less trash on the banks. That is a fact.

 

I do know that not all spin fisherman do this, but being more of an entry level way of getting into the sport, spin fishing attracts people who may not know the proper etiquette.

 

That being said, I am poor. I fish leaders and fly line wayyy tooo long. I don't have all the top of the line gear. My net was $14 at Rite Aid. I've had the same fishing vest since I was about 12 (a buddy just donated his fishpond pack so I can finally retire that vest!!). I also catch more fish than most of the rich guys who are all decked out in the latest equipment. So like with anything, you can spend a ton of money on fly fishing, but that won't necessarily mean you will catch more fish.

 

I grew up spin fishing in northern Wisconsin/U.P of Michigan, and started fly fishing around age 12 because I found it more fun to land a fish on a fly rod. It's all preference.

[mikechell 0]

JSzymczyk ... "crude sticks and poles" ... was just for you !!! ( I think it was you who said you hated that, right?)

[Steeldrifter 0]

My net was $14 at Rite Aid.

 

You're Rite Aid carries fishing stuff???

[shoebop 0]

I'm kinda sorry I started this thread now. I thought we (flyfishermen) were better than this. I don't know why I thought that. I guess we, (humankind) are all assholes when it comes right down to it. But there has to be room for "different" in our world.

I deplore bad behavior as much as anyone no matter who displays it. I guess there is enough ill will on both sides of this to keep us divided for a long time to come. Good luck with that! I guess I just haven't been exposed to enough of us to form an accurate opinion. I was wrong, clearly. You have saddened me more than you can know. I will not hate, namecall, disparage a whole group for the bad behavior of a few people or for being different.

I tried to open a dialog on prejudice and envy that I thought was aimed at us flyfishers. Hoping that maybe some of our minds might be opened to the possibilities of making a better experience for those who touch our lives streamside. You know, be ambassadors for our sport and all that crap. I can see now that goal was far too lofty. What was I thinking? Who am I to do this? I am not a naive person. I am aware that issues are never one sided but I must say, I am truely surprised by some of your responses.

I will shut up now and climb down from my soapbox and not attempt this again. I will follow my conscience and pursue my passion alone, as I see fit. You may do the same.

[Piker20 0]

Don't lose all hope ShoeBop. I think you only have to see the mixed bunch of fly swaps in the forum and the mix of folk taking part to see that here at FTF we are a generally accepting lot.

I think Switch10 hit on it when he said bait/spin fishing is easier for a complete novice. The cost of even a basic entry level fly rod, reel, line, tippet and fly is around double that of a spinning rod reel and lure. When i first started I had a father to teach the way, I hate to think how I would have started out left to my own devices.

I don't think many people start as fly fishermen, we tend (sweeping statement) to develop into that as we learn the fishing trade. So I think that the casual holiday type angler with the bubble float and a bit of worm will never (another sweeping statement) be as loving of the environment and the fish as an angler who fishes week in week out, fly or spin or bait.

[JSzymczyk 0]

Shoebop- you are being WAY too hard on yourself! It is a good topic worthy of discussion. In an open forum there will undoubtedly be many points of view because each one of us has lived our life differently.

 

I almost never fish "fly only" areas. I love to fly fish, but not when I am in a time and place when it is just not an effective way to go. In October I was on Lake Erie in my Kayak in 3 foot waves with wind gusting to 20mph. I was catching a LOT of big smallmouths just off the bottom in 25 to 30 feet of water by jigging 1/2 ounce metal spoons. In that situation, there was no way I could think of to catch them with a fly and a fly rod. I live less than 10 miles from the famous Allenberry stretch of the Yellow Breeches and have fished it exactly ONCE. It is almost always crowded, except for winter, and it's like production line fishing.

 

I don't have nearly enough spare time to fish, so my time on the water is extremely valuable. Sometimes fly fishing is the best way, sometimes not.

[Hellgrammite 0]

This is really a great topic, and an important one.

 

Last week the cable repair guy asked me "Oh...you fly fish?" with a rather snobbish attitude when he saw my two ancient wheatley fly boxes sitting on my desk; both were purchased 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, 184th...whatever) hand, and one has a very faded, pale "Orvis" logo on it. I paid 30 dollars for the PAIR of wheatleys, and frankly, theyre a great dry fly box. He went on a story about how he fishes (with eggs, of course) on Elk Creek and loves to outfish the "Orvis people".

 

He made a judgement, a value, personal judgement, about me, based on my fly box. Not right, is it?

 

It isnt right to do it to anyone else based on the sort of fishing rod they have in their hand.

 

I make between 8 and 10 thousand USD a year. That's it. I am hardly part of "an elite" or a "have". I have used a Thompson A vise for years until, as a graduation present, my brother gave me 40 dollars and I decided to treat myself to a xuron vise. I have a Fenwick FF75 rod and a pair of old Pflueger reels.

 

And I still dont litter, swear, rip fish, drink, litter, let my kids beat the water with sticks, snag fish, play my radio, and in general make an utter ass of myself like I see some doing. I have seen this behavior from fly fishermen a handful of times, BUT, it is from spin or bait fisherman more often than not, HOWEVER, it is not universal to them, either. I see a lot who behave, are respectful, friendly, and fun to be around.

 

I fly fish simply because I dont want to carry a ton of stuff with me when I fish, and because tying (probably my favorite part of the hobby) and fishing go hand in hand. I have fished since I can remember, of course, with bait, then lures, until just a few years ago, but we never behaved that way. My dad wasnt perfect, but he wouldnt tolerate us littering, leaving line and hooks about, and so on.

 

People are people. Some fly fishermen are rich, some are poor. Some are jerks or snobs, some arent. The same can be said of just about any other group.

[mikechell 0]

Wow, Shoe ... where'd you get that opinion? Are we reading the same thread?

I hope you didn't read my post and take it for truth! Most of what I've seen here is true outdoors men and women complaining about people trashing the country side. If Fly Fishermen complain about that more than other anglers, good for them. Somebody needs to voice the complaint about litter! I do not feel that fly anglers as a whole are "snobbish" or in any other way elitist.

I can tell you from my own experience, I've never had a bad experience with another angler. Most of the time, when I boat passes mine, I hear, "Look, he's fly fishing." A lot of them will slow down and watch for a few minutes to see if I catch anything. Several have stopped to talk with me about it.

 

If you are reading some kind of "hate" or "snobbish" feeling into the replies to this post ... I think you are projecting your own prejudices. A person can find, if you look hard enough, exactly what you want to find in any situation. If you take only 100 answers to a poll ... and you ask only the right people ... you can get 100% approval for any opinion.

[Rocco 0]

Just a few observations on the topic at hand.

 

God only made so much free flowing water that holds sport fish. Man has screwed up a lot of it -- irretrievably in many cases. Competition for space on the remaining water is inevitable and bound to get ugly at times, as many of us are ugly-minded and a fright in our mirrors too.

 

Beyond the divides mentioned here, there are also others clogging the waters including tubers, drift and power boat users, and canoeists. And, the fly fishing classes that turn out a dozen or so neophites too I guess.

 

I mainly fly fish, largley on flies-only stretches or on big water. There I can find privacy from the elbow-to-elbow stuff and the boombox and beer-can-leaving crowd.

 

I also find that most fly fishermen respect their prey and the rules set up to assure it at least survives into the future. The perps in easily 90% of the illegal and boorish behavior I see on streams are bait fishermen. (Note, I did not say 90% of bait fishermne are yabos who break the law.)

 

Competitive (tournament) fishing of any kind is an abomination and it has no place on anything but damned backwaters made by the guvmint.

 

Guess that makes me an elitist. I'll live with that.

 

Rocco

[flytire 0]

People are people. Some fly fishermen are rich, some are poor. Some are jerks or snobs, some arent. The same can be said of just about any other group.

 

in addition, some are slobs and some are not (yes fly fisherman also leave their garbage, leaders, cigar & cigarette butts on the banks), some are vigilant and some are not (how many times do you read on a fly fishing forum of someone throwing rocks where other types of fishermen are fishing), some understand etiquette and some do not (some fly fishermen will move in on other fly fishermen or a fly fishing guide will move in to place their client in the same space as a wading fisherman or even intimidate the wading fisherman), some will help a newbie and some will not (it doesnt hurt to help a struggling fly fisher with a casting tip or giving out one of your precious flies) etc. fly fishermen are not always as innocent as some may think but not all fly fishermen are guilty either.

 

i have fished with bait (as a kid with my dad and great uncles for panfish and bullheads at the family cottage). after a long fishing absence i took it back up only this time fishing a fly and a bubble, a very effective method of fishing. hell, i even used spinners and lures. then i started fly fishing in 1980 after the the company i worked for in colorado had classes through the recreation department. i got hooked and thats the way i choose to fish. there is absolutely wrong with any of the methods that fishermen want to use. there is room for everybody. i have eaten a few trout from areas where taking one is allowed. they are pretty damn good with garlic butter and rolled in bread crumbs over an open campfire. i catch and release now but wouldnt hesitate to eat another one.

 

canoers, kayakers, tubers, swimmers, children and even the damned dog has a right to use any public body of water where they are allowed.

 

we must all respect each other and our differences. fly fishing is NOT the only way. telling people that they shouldnt fish the way they fish isnt the way either.

[Wavey1988 0]

I've heard fly fishers making comments when they've seen me chucking bait or lures out. I also know someone who derisively talks about fly fishing. I've also had a another bait fisherman make a derisive comment because one of my favourite rods is about 10 years old. Was a nice feeling to completely out fish him, with the mountain of gear he was using too.

 

I think in all aspects of angling there is an element of elitism, to some extent. Be it only pursuing one species, using one main method, at expensive waters. Or thinking that to be a good fisherman, you have to drop £500 on a new rod.

 

But as long as you're fishing in the rules, and having fun doing it. Who the hell cares what others think

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

you want to see elitests in fly fishing just watch me walk into an orvis shop I am far from being the guy you see in the fly fishing mags I'm 6'1" tall 285 lbs and look like the anti christ (I have a beard long hair and tons of ink) I eat fresh trout, salmon, steelhead, bass,pike, bluegills, you name it I catch and eat it. I do throw a ton of fish back but I also eat alot but many times I have come up on people fishing bait or lures and I walk around them and let their area go undisturbed by me many of them seeing my rod start talking to me and a few times have told me they seen fish rising but couldn't get a strike then ask if I would see if they will hit a fly and they watch as I try there is good in all fishing Hell my wife is a die hard worm fisher person and I married her now once in awhile she picks up her flyrod but given a choice she loves her bait our daughter is starting to pick up the long rod but prefers spinners and bait but neither of them hate me because I choose to fly fish many times you see snobs in fly fishing it is actually a minority same as the bad bait guys or spin guys making a generalization of a fishing style is as bad as saying all bikers are bad because of a few gangs or all rednecks are dumb just because the ones you see on tv are you just got to take each person as just what it is an individual