"If you cannot afford a lawyer one will be appointed to you"

[vicrider 0]

Okay, 72 years old, never needed a criminal lawyer, couple simple civil transactions like houses a few times, and never read the Miranda right but heard them a thousand times on TV. So my question is if you wanted a lawyer for some simple criminal reason and didn't feel like paying their $500 an hour fees. Can you request a court lawyer or do you need to prove you cannot afford one? And where would a decision on what you could afford come from? I hear of people on the news who went broke defending themselves in court. This should not happen IMO.

 

Anyway, like I said, I don't see myself needing one but anyone know how that does work?

[Adam Saarinen 0]

And where would a decision on what you could afford come from? Probably from some young S#@T just out of school that dosen't know anything about the real world! Stay out of BIG trouble!

[Piker20 0]

Also wondered this. Seems the only good lawyers who do pro bono work only take huge cases that return them more publicity and in turn money.

If you are truly trying to stand up for yourself you end up with a newbie or a washout who isn't going to go that extra mile for you because they aren't making cash.

 

 

A friend here was given a ticket by traffic police and offered court or penalty points and a big fine. He took court as he knew he was right. He was proven right in court but hasn't been able to recover his costs against the police, so won the fight but still ends up out of pocket.

[josephcsylvia 0]

the decision made of if you can afford one or not is made based on an application for civil indengcy you file with the clerk of court, it will actually wave all fees like serving someone or divorce filing ect, Believe it or not the threshold is quite high and based on your family size. ex, For a family of four here in Florida you are considered indigent if you make less than 50,000 a year.

[mikechell 0]

All you need to do is say, "I want a lawyer." You could be a millionaire and still get a court appointed lawyer. You have to prove you can't afford one, but it's still possible to prove the case would financially ruin you.

 

Of course, the more money you have, the harder it would be to prove that.

[Mike West 0]

All you need to do is say, "I want a lawyer." You could be a millionaire and still get a court appointed lawyer. You have to tell them you will get your own.

What he said...they might tell you you have to get one but just don't do it and show up to court without one..they will fix it then.

Don't know what kind of trouble you are in but I've saved myself money a few times by calling the DA my self and working out a plea.

That's all your lawyer does anyways unless you are going to a jury trial.

[mikechell 0]

I am wondering, Mike ...

" ... saved myself money a few times ..."

Just how many times have you needed to go to court?

 

Never mind ... too much information ... I don't need to know ... don't tell me, I like plausible deniability ...

[Cold 0]

Doing a bit of research, it seems that you must either have legal counsel or waive it in order for the courts to enforce any sentence in which you are deprived of life or liberty.

 

The bit about affording counsel is the most commonly seen interpretation, I would imagine, because it is the main reason someone would choose to use a court appointed lawyer, but from what I read, unless the states set their own limit to it (which doesn't seem terribly likely), any defendant can choose a court appointed lawyer.

 

So starting from the sixth amendment: you have the right to legal counsel. This, as written, simply prevents the courts from denying you counsel.

 

Powell v Alabama: In capital cases, where the defendant is both unable to employ counsel and unable to defend himself, the court must appoint counsel for him

Johnson v Zerbst: Not only do defendants have the right to counsel, but they are entitled to counsel.

Gideon v Wainright: The state courts are also compelled to abide by the above decisions, which to that point only strictly applied to federal cases, and also that the scope of this provision extended beyond capital cases to any involving the defendant's life and/or liberty, thus applying to the vast majority of criminal cases where one's life and/or liberty may be at stake.

Argersinger v. Hamlin: A person may not be imprisoned without legal counsel, this is a further extension that accounts for any imprisonment, not only sentencing as a result of trial by jury.

Scott v. Illinois: A defendant is entitled to said counsel only in cases of actual imprisonment, not in any case where it is possible. For example, if a crime carries a penalty of a fine up to 2 years in prison, if you were not provided counsel and convicted, and had only to pay a fine, your rights have not been violated.

 

At no point in these decisions was the earnings of the defendants in question, which suggests (to me) that the defendant can decide for themselves what they can and cannot afford, and that, at any time, they may request court appointed counsel, free of charge. I'd suspect that Scott v Illinois is usually a non-factor, as the courts would likely seek to avoid a mistrial, and as such, appoint counsel in any case where prison time is possible.

 

 

Interesting topic!

[Kentuckysteve 0]

In my experience anytime you have a court appointed lawyer you're chances are less for winning or getting off easy anyway.These guy's are not working for your money.They are being paid by the state.If you were paying them they would work harder to win the case.Otherwise they are just going through the motion's and there for a paycheck.

 

 

Edited the first part of this post.The info was wrong.Not the first time i have been wrong.Sure it won't be the last.

[essequamvideri 0]

Just as a reminder to everyone... the Miranda Rights state “You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

 

"Can and WILL be used AGAINST you in the court of law" These are not read to you to help you in any way no mater how it is explained to you.

 

This is just my two sense... or cents, which ever way you want to read this.

 

Michael

[josephcsylvia 0]

.

[Mike West 0]

mikechell,

Nothing bad..I just wasn't always the up standing citizen I am today.

To the OP,

Unless you are in some kind of serious trouble looking at serious time and want or need a jury trial all a lawyer is going to do is plead it out for you,you can do that yourself.

 

Last time I was in that situation after two years of my lawyer going back and forth with the DA I didn't like the deal and asked if I could talk to the

DA myself...lawyer didn't recommend it but set up the meeting, I basically walked away scott free...my lawyer told me I missed my calling. Cost me 5K for him and could have fixed it day one myself for nothing.

 

Keep in mind too...it's all about money...depending how rich you are you can buy your way out of about anything.

Fines,court costs,community service,restitution,drug rehab...if they are throwing that at you just ask the DA how much not to go through any of it...he'll have a price.

 

There is an old saying "Justice is for the rich"....very true. You are guilty until you can afford to prove you are innocent in this country.

[heavynets 0]

"for some simple criminal reason"

 

No such thing. If you are found guilty of anything in which you could be sentenced to more than on year, even if only a fine is imposed, it is a felony. A felony can haunt you forever in many ways. Be sure to take that into consideration as to the value of having your own lawyer.

 

Mike West is right. There is equal justice under the law unless money is passed under the table. 😀

[vicrider 0]

Just so no one gets excited and starts a "Go Fund Me" to get Vicrider a lawyer, I'm fine. Never needed a criminal lawyer and don't need on now. It's just something I've wondered about for some time watching too many cop and robber shows, especially lately with mobility limited more. I watch those shows and the guys with tailored suits usually bring their own lawyer or call for him. They're on a BIG retainer and they go out of there way to get guys off they know are guilty. The slob on the street who gets hauled in gets a court appointed lawyer who wants only to clear a docket as quick as possible so gets the perp to accept a lesser charge to save him having to invest any more time than necessary. With all big city courts overloaded with cases the street crime stuff gets pleaded out and wrapped up as quick as possible.

 

NOW....Everything I wrote is from my vast experience of watching crime shows and if the real world is different my bad. From what I read above I don't think it's too far off and thanks for all the responses.

[Poopdeck 0]

The advice given here is way off base and mostly incorrect. Some are talking civil law as if its criminal law. Family court and divorce is not criminal law it's civil law. Two completely and separate codes of law and they do not cross each other. Each state is wildly different in their application of criminal law as well. What happens in jersey is far different then pa.

 

You can get court appointed lawyers if you can't afford an attorney not because you don't want to pay for it. As a taxpayer I am not responsible to pay your criminal defense attorney so you can have money for an iPhone, cable tv, fishing gear and steak dinners. You may have to prioritize your life and figure what is more important to you, your freedom or your sage. You cannot simply say I want a lawyer and you will get one. Millionaires are not entitled to court appointed attorneys. Yes the man can screw you without an attorney. If it were that simple to stay out of jail why would anybody hire an attorney. If you do not qualify for a public defender and you are told to come with an attorney and you don't, prepare to defend yourself with a court appointed attorney assigned only to explain the laws to you as you go about representing yourself. Or prepare to pay for that court appointed attorney anyway through something called court costs. Taxpayers are not compelled to pay or your attorney. You are and you will pay one way or the other as it should be.

 

The notion that a DA will set a price to make things go away is absolutely ridiculous. No way no how. Defense attorneys do not plead everything. Most defense attorneys know their clients are lying to them. Most know their clients did the crime and most can weigh the evidence against them and know if their client will be convicted in trial where they will then be launched. A good defense attorney truly advocating for their client would be negligent if he did not negotiate a lighter sentence if he could. Better to do 2 years in the county pokey rather then 5 years in the states big house.

 

If you find yourself in need of a criminal defense attorney I would recommend hiring one if you do not qualify for a PD. Cancel your trip to Disney, give up smoking, drinking, chasing women and get a metro pcs pre-paid phone.

 

Glad to hear your not in trouble because the advice given here is horrible. For the record my use of the term you is not specific to you. It's used generally for anybody who may find themselves in the market for a defense attorney.