What are you working on?

[FishnPhil 0]

I am not much of a hiker outside of day trips to high mountain lakes (~12 miles round trip). Will drive for some time but also be dropped off; left behind so to speak (by choice haha!) for some time as well. Am also planning a few short hikes and pictures of my position from within the cell phone GPS app. I'll have been there and done that.

 

I like fuzzy details and have kept this trip that way. I have no plan or idea what I will do for many days. A lost soul wondering barren landscapes in search of, nothing. I have a vehicle, my feet, maps, and more moving (and not) fishable water than I can possibly fish in the time I have. The only thing that's certain at this point is where I'll rest my skull at night, assuming I don't get eaten by something

 

I will admit, I have a planned a few things in advance, like tying a ton of flies for any possible fish!

[Poopdeck 0]

Been busy this past week doing a bit of rodbuilding (see thread under flyfishing)

 

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=88761

 

, and having a new motor rigged on my skiff (can't remember how many motors on my old Maverick over the years..). This one is E-Tec 90hp number four.... Now as we move towards September and the opening of snook season I'm ready to go. With almost all of my lure orders done and gone it's finally time to get back to the fly-tying bench where the first order of business will be to re-hab about 20 bugs that have been thoroughly chewed but with enough left to be worth the effort... then it will be nothing but tarpon flies as our "second season" gets closer. The big silver fish will be gorging themselves the last five weeks before Halloween and I'm needing some ammo... Of course all of the above is predicated on any hurricanes (this is that time of year) giving us a miss... If you even say the word hurricane in season - Everglades National Park will lock its gates.... and I'll be fishing... somewhere else....

Capt. Bob, I thought I was the lone 2 stroke hold out. I'm getting ready to repower my boat with a 130HO etec jet. My 1993 Johnson still runs so damn good that's it's hard to pluck down 13K for a new motor. I'm getting older and I'm basically wrestling with buying peace of mind. With the popularity of 4 strokes I have been wavering between a 4 or 2 stroke. Now I bought a 4 stroke in 2002 and it was a complete dog. Worst motor I ever owned and I was sorry I bought it after the first trip out t I assume the technology has gotten better.

 

Is there any particular reason your sticking with a two stroke over a 4? I can't help but think that the popularity of the 4 stroke is because a lot of people, at this point, have never owned a 2 stroke.

 

Mike Chell, your an outboard whiz. I'm curious your about your thoughts on 2 or 4 stoke. Which do you own?

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Yep, BRP is the last outfit still making and selling a two stroke motor here in the USA. This is not the old carbureted polluting two stroke though... Its fuel injected, computer controlled, and actually burns cleaner than any four stroke (as well as being lighter in weight and with a much quicker and stronger acceleration...).

 

I may be a bit prejudiced since Ive never had anything other than an Evinrude or Johnson motor -since 1974... and I was on OMCs guide program until they went into bankruptcy, then with BRP when they bought what was left of OMC and brought out the first E-Tec. This is my fourth one and I cant say enough good things about them.

[mikechell 0]

I appreciate the call out ... but I must say, I am a four stroke fan.

Don't get me wrong, you can't beat the power to weight ratio of two stroke engines because they have a combustion event every rotation of the crankshaft. For the first 500 hours or so, two strokes are hard to argue against. But after that, they are ... problematic in today's world. Cylinders WILL have wear, just because they start out with holes in them. Insufficient support for the piston rings equals cylinder and ring wear. Even though they can be sold as EPA compliant, they can't stay that way past 500 hours. ( Sorry, Bob, but "... burns cleaner than any four stroke ..." is a sales pitch and not a true statement)

A two stroke with more than 1000 hours is a rare monster, indeed.

All that said, few civilians will put enough hours on an outboard to reach the failure points. Average annual use (civilian AND commercial) across the Country is around 70 hours a year.

 

Four stroke engines can last upwards of 5000 hours, as long as the lubrication system is maintained. (I've got an ECM off a Honda BF150 with over 16,000 hours on it) Since they have one power stroke for every TWO rotations of the crank, they produce less power to weight ratio, so comparison to two stroke is "unfair". Given a chance, the smoother torque through acceleration and the quieter, reliable operation for a much longer time makes four stroke engines desirable.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

The motor we replaced, another E-Tec 90 was a bit over 2400 hours - still going strong. The motor before that was at 2700 hours and again still going strong. That business about EPA compliant is right on the money - and four strokes will eventually need some serious pollution gear to come anywhere near what the E-Tec is achieving - right now... There are places in Europe that will not allow any outboard motors -except the E-Tec ... due to pollution concerns. Older hulls in particular really benefit from the lighter weight of an E-Tec compared to current four strokes but that's simply a matter of design since older hulls were originally designed for lighter weight motors. In recent years new hulls have been designed from the beginning to support heavier motors.

 

The only place where current four strokes have a real advantage is on the smaller motors (gear meant for skiffs at 16 feet and smaller) since the E-Tec design does not allow them to build really lightweight smaller motors (less than 40hp...).

 

But of course everyone gets to choose their own power setups.... The big key for every manufacturer is having their motor as the first one on any boat coming from the factory... For a variety of reasons whatever that first brand is will likely be what it's re-powered with when it needs to be replaced....

[Poopdeck 0]

Okay you guys didn't help with my indecision but both made very valid points. I have 625ish hours on my motor and it's still running strong. The thing I did not like with the 4 was how long it took to get on plane. It was a pure dog and 4 stroke fans always say the hole shot is great. It's only great if you never owned a 2 stroke. Mike, your assessment was the most accurate I've ever heard from a 4 stroke fan. They just don't generate the power fast enough. I spend most of my time in shallow rocky rivers where getting Up out of the squat in the least amount of space Is sometimes the only reason you don't hit bottom. 4's take to long to generate that kind of power.

 

The fuel efficiency, longevity and quietness of 4's are also great benifits but I've heard that most commercial boats are going back to 2 strokes because the maintenance costs on 4 strokes, especially higher hour motors, are killing them. Just what I heard from the internet so I have no clue on the validity of this. The weight of 4 strokes have come down to where they are less then 30 or 40 pounds difference. That just means more plastic to me.

 

Tough decision for sure but I'm thinking a 2. efficiency, EPA compliance, noise level, ease of starting (although I've never had a problem starting a 2 stroke) and longevity are all secondary to performance for me. Whatever I buy will last the rest of my life so why not go solely on performance.

 

Great input though so thanks to the both of you.

[chugbug27 0]

Day two in a local hotel working on diplomacy, getting my upwind neighbor to remove the bags full of crushed mothballs she paid her handyman to throw under her house. "It's a southern thing."

[TIER 0]

The motor we replaced, another E-Tec 90 was a bit over 2400 hours - still going strong. The motor before that was at 2700 hours and again still going strong. That business about EPA compliant is right on the money - and four strokes will eventually need some serious pollution gear to come anywhere near what the E-Tec is achieving - right now... There are places in Europe that will not allow any outboard motors -except the E-Tec ... due to pollution concerns. Older hulls in particular really benefit from the lighter weight of an E-Tec compared to current four strokes but that's simply a matter of design since older hulls were originally designed for lighter weight motors. In recent years new hulls have been designed from the beginning to support heavier motors.

 

The only place where current four strokes have a real advantage is on the smaller motors (gear meant for skiffs at 16 feet and smaller) since the E-Tec design does not allow them to build really lightweight smaller motors (less than 40hp...).

 

But of course everyone gets to choose their own power setups.... The big key for every manufacturer is having their motor as the first one on any boat coming from the factory... For a variety of reasons whatever that first brand is will likely be what it's re-powered with when it needs to be replaced....

I am a heavy snowmobiler. I try my hardest on my 120 (don't judge, dad makes me ride it even when I can afford a full size), and it is a 4 stroke (Polaris engine, too!). That engine has been through about 500 miles of full throttle, turn carving wheelieing mayhem. My dad has a 2 stoke. It breaks down ALL THE TIME. And dad is not rough at all with his snowmobile. He's a trail rider, and I'm a mountain climber. The thing I like about his snowgo is that it is big, and has better frame quality. My snogo on the other hand is tiny, and it brakes when you hit a root at 4 MPH. But that has nothing to do with the engine, which the engine runs fine.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

One small item I forgot to note regarding maintenance... The original E-Tecs (what I run...) have a 300 hour maintenance cycle... the new ones (the G-2 motors) have a 500 hour maintenance cycle... That's right 500 operating hours before scheduled maintenance - compare that to any four stroke that has a 100 hour maintenance cycle... Most recreational types will have to work at it to clock 100 hours in a year... Guys like me will do that in a month, during season, when we're on the water day after day.... so maintenance and maintenance costs are definitely a consideration... The way I run I figure on two maintenance costs per year - with a four stroke it would be at least five, maybe six for me....

 

I would have gotten a G-2 this time around but they still don't have one in the 90 size range - the smallest they're currently offering the G-2 is in a 115 (and would you believe it.... the thing's a 3 cylinder like my 90...). I'll be looking to re-power again in two or three years - hopefully they'll have the second generation available then in a 90....

 

One last kicker for anyone purchasing a new motor is the warranty... For years I've operated with a three year warranty (even in commercial service...). My new motor (like the G-2) has a five year warranty.... Think I died and went to heaven...

[Mark Knapp 0]

Tying up some big streamers for up-coming trips for pike and ling cod, halibut and rockfish in the salt.

 

Died mountain goat tied on a size 11/0 hook. The mountain goat was died by our friend fshn2 here on the forum. The hook is oversized on purpose to select toward larger rockfish.

 

I added some feathers to the goat, we can call this fly the "ticklish goat".

 

Nothin' but feathers.

 

The Non-Pelagic Squid with a trailing hook.

 

The Non-Pelagic Squid with a cone head.

 

A Clouser-ish streamer with mountain goat and feathers.

 

An extra fuzzy "Clouser" in mountain goat, the extra bulk is for the kind of fish I'm trying to imitate.

 

A Clouser tied with goat instead of buck tail on a 9/0 hook. It's six inches long, I couldn't get the size I wanted with buck tail.

 

A goat Clouser in chartreuse.

 

A Clouser-ish pike imitation on a 9/0 for (what else) pike.

 

 

Pretty soon I'll start back on the Orvis Index of Fly Patterns with the salmon fly nymphs.

[DarrellP 0]

Day two in a local hotel working on diplomacy, getting my upwind neighbor to remove the bags full of crushed mothballs she paid her handyman to throw under her house. "It's a southern thing."

Some people think they repel snakes. Probably not

[chugbug27 0]

This was for fleas.

[wr1nkles 0]

I got two Pflueger Medalists off ebay last week, a 1495 and 1494. Got them in the other night and started to switch to LHW and do a little servicing to them. I got the 1495 for $17 and 1494 for $27-ish, both in decent condition. I went this route because it was cheaper than a spare spool. I also got the 1494 for the 3-weight I am on the prowl for... Anyone got a Superfine Glass they want to part with?

 

Also got the floor laid on the sunporch I've been renovating for almost a year. Just have to finish the trimming up, putting my desk out there and I'll have a permanent place to keep my fly tying gear setup. Really excited for that!

 

 

[fshng2 0]

Tying up some big streamers for up-coming trips for pike and ling cod, halibut and rockfish in the salt.

Died mountain goat tied on a size 11/0 hook. The mountain goat was died by our friend fshn2 here on the forum. The hook is oversized on purpose to select toward larger rockfish.

 

Real nice looking flies Mark.

[mikechell 0]

Floor looks good, Wr1nkles. Is that a trap door?