3x 4x 5x vs standard

[kerusso 0]

This may sound like a silly question but I have looked around and cannot find the information I am looking for.  I hope I can explain it  ....... if I have a sz8 standard streamer hook what are some of the equivalent hooks in the "x" series that would be a very  close match.  Would a sz 12 3x be the same as a standard sz 8.  I've also seen 5x and 6x hooks .... so would  sz8 5x be the equivalent of a standard 00? 

Ive been tying streamers of late and need to order some sz 8 streamer hooks.  When i started reading in the hook description I see that some hooks are 3x-6x ..... and i don't know how that translates into actual hook size.  i believe each "x" increment equals one hook eye but even that does not help me a lot. I also understand 3x means 3 extra long.

So, if anyone has info they can share I would appreciate it.  Thank you in advance.

[skeet3t 0]

Not sure if this is a correct answer but there are comparison charts for the major hook manufacturers. Some even have representative photos for comparison.

[Poopdeck 0]

Good question. It’s why I like to buy hooks in person and then restock a known commodity. Hook sizing seems nonstandard and non sensical. 

[chugbug27 0]

Here's a great article by Charlie Craven that someone else posted on the forum a while back. 

https://www.flyfisherman.com/editorial/Making-Sense-of-Hooks/383617

According to Charlie, the length designation starts with 2x the hook gap of the particular hook as ground zero (std length) and goes up (or down) one eye length for each 1xl. 

Just as a general rule of thumb.

If you have a particular hook in mind, let us know and maybe we can give you a specific answer based on actual hooks.

[Mark Knapp 0]

Of course sizes will vary from maker to maker but generally, the number size, (ie #2, #3, ETC.) refers to size of the hook with a standard length shank. The size of the gap goes up with the number size. The X number refers to the length of the shank. So, a size 8 gap of any given brand/model of hook should be the same size gap as a size 8, 2X but with a longer shank. The X stands for extra long, just like it does in clothing (XL, XXL)

 

[SilverCreek 0]

4 hours ago, kerusso said:

This may sound like a silly question but I have looked around and cannot find the information I am looking for.  I hope I can explain it  ....... if I have a sz8 standard streamer hook what are some of the equivalent hooks in the "x" series that would be a very  close match.  Would a sz 12 3x be the same as a standard sz 8.  I've also seen 5x and 6x hooks .... so would  sz8 5x be the equivalent of a standard 00? 

Ive been tying streamers of late and need to order some sz 8 streamer hooks.  When i started reading in the hook description I see that some hooks are 3x-6x ..... and i don't know how that translates into actual hook size.  i believe each "x" increment equals one hook eye but even that does not help me a lot. I also understand 3x means 3 extra long.

So, if anyone has info they can share I would appreciate it.  Thank you in advance.

I don't understand what you mean by a "size 8 standard streamer hook."

The reason is that streamers are tied on extra long hooks and not on a standard length hook. For example, here is the pattern for a Mickey Finn Streamer that calls for a 4X long hook. 

https://globalflyfisher.com/patterns-streamers/mickey-finn

Other patterns may call for a 3X long hook like this Muddler Minnow Streamer. So there is NO standard length for a streamer.

https://flylordsmag.com/how-to-tie-the-muddler-minnow/

 

As you know hooks are sized by the gape and NOT the length of the shank. The length of the shank of a standard (dry fly) hook is 1.5 times the hook gape.

 

The second thing you have to remember is that most hooks are in even sizes. But there are odd sized hooks like the TMC102Y.

You asked, "Would a sz 12 3x(l) be the same as a standard sz 8." NO!!!!!

12-8=4

So  a size 12 4XL dry fly hook is the same shank length as a size 8 dry fly hook of the same brand. You have to use the same brand because hook sizing varies from brand to brand.

After replying to a post about hook sizing on another BB, I sent a photo I used to Gary Borger. His blog post about hook sizing and including the eye of the hook in the length of small flies to match insect sizes is below.

Note that the hook eye adds 20 - 25% to the length of these size 16 length hooks. That is a significant difference in length as the fish perceives the pattern to be.

http://www.garyborger.com/2012/10/08/all-hooks-are-not-created-equal/

 

[WWKimba 0]

Here's one of the sites I use most to find hook equivalants - flyhooks.org.  It covers the most manufactures and shows the hook next to grid (on many hooks) so you can see the differences.

Kim

[Jaydub 0]

2 hours ago, SilverCreek said:

You asked, "Would a sz 12 3x(l) be the same as a standard sz 8." NO!!!!!

12-8=4

So  a size 12 4XL dry fly hook is the same shank length as a size 8 dry fly hook of the same brand. You have to sue the saem brand because hook sizing varies from brand to brand.

After replying to a post about hook sizing on another BB, I sent a photo I used to Gary Borger. His blog post about hook sizing and including the eye of the hook in the length of small flies to match insect sizes is below.

Note that the hook eye adds 20 - 25% to the length of these size 16 length hooks. That is a significant difference in length as the fish perceives the pattern to be.

http://www.garyborger.com/2012/10/08/all-hooks-are-not-created-equal/

 

Thank you for posting what I believe is the correct information. I have seen many "experts" get it wrong. Unfortunately, the link just brings me back to this thread.

 

[SilverCreek 0]

You have to copy the link and paste it into your browser. For some reason, this site does not allow direct linking to other sites. So copy the link below and paste it.

http://www.garyborger.com/2012/10/08/all-hooks-are-not-created-equal/

[kerusso 0]

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen;  all input has been very helpful.

[flytire 0]

here is a good chart on streamer hooks

Streamer Hook Reference | Global FlyFisher | The reference here is focused on the long streamers, namely 4xl and longer hooks. Many of the hooks listed are hard to find, but if you keep an eye on...

[robow7 0]

I can feel your pain as I tie a lot of streamers and there is no substitute for having the actual hook in hand.  May I just interject one thought, somewhat related and that is, many feel, including Kelly Galloup, that any hook longer than 3x often has reduced hook holding power as the shank becomes long enough so as to increase leverage and can be more easily pulled out. YMMV

[SilverCreek 0]

1 hour ago, robow7 said:

I can feel your pain as I tie a lot of streamers and there is no substitute for having the actual hook in hand.  May I just interject one thought, somewhat related and that is, many feel, including Kelly Galloup, that any hook longer than 3x often has reduced hook holding power as the shank becomes long enough so as to increase leverage and can be more easily pulled out. YMMV

That is an interesting observation.

I would add that any pattern that has a bead or cone head also places more mass at the front of the hook. What Kelly Galloup is describing by using the term leverage is the "moment of inertia" which we know more familiarly when we describe the "swing weight" of a fly rod.

Greater moment of inertia means it is harder to stop the mass from rotating. You can increase the moment of inertia by making the fly longer or by putting more mass at the head.