Trout Flies Invitational

[breambuster 0]

Yes. Mikechell I always wondered what he used for a hook. But the story is that he killed the Yellowhammer with a blowgun. But at any rate, the pattern is so old that no one knows now who invented it.

 

BB

[netabrookie 0]

Breambuster, I have some of your flies and I see nothing at all wrong with your skill or talent as a fly tyer. I like your choice of the yallerhammer and i have also read the history or legend of it. The only thing that I ever questioned about the story was the part about the flicker being taken with a blow gun. I have done a lot of research about my Indian (or I guess I should say Native American) ancestors that have been in these mountains as long people have been here but nowhere have I came across a blow gun used as a weapon or as a means of hunting. It could just be one of those things that I didn't notice or just missed along the way I guess. I have shot a squirrel or three with a recurve bow when I was younger because that it how my great, great grandfather might have done it but now I have a different mental image. Instead or a proud and tall Cherokee standing in the mountains I am picturing a shorter, pygmy size man with a blow gun and a dead flicker... I think I will stick with my original thoughts that don't have short natives with blow guns.

 

Mike, you could be mistaken on the hooks. I thought they paddled their bark canoes to Norway and came back with Mustad hooks.

[mikechell 0]

No blowguns in American Indian history. So, that part of the "legend" is definitely myth.

 

Since all "trends" in America seem to start in California ... they probably paddled to Japan, as this collection of hunting and fishing artifacts seems to show.

 

 

 

[breambuster 0]

I read it here: http://www.rackelhanen.se/eng/10384.htm But when I read it, I had the same reaction as you guys. I have NEVER heard of a Native American using a blow gun. But I was just telling the legend as I had read it. The bird in question is also called a "Yellow Shafted Woodpecker and is a protected species. The modern day pattern that I have found calls for peacock herl and grizzly dyed yellow. So there shouldn't be a problem with CITES. I just thought that others might like to have a fly pattern from "Our Southern Highlanders," to steal the title of a classic book by Horace Kelphart.

 

Take care

 

BB

[netabrookie 0]

Breambuster, I thought that you were just passing along the legend as you read it and not getting ready to creep around the woods in search of a protected woodpecker.

 

Take Care,

Tony

[mikechell 0]

We're not arguing with you, BB. Just commenting.

[Horseshoes 0]

Sent them in the post and heading your way.

[troutguy 0]

Sorry gang but your theories about Native Americans are wrong. I learned about blow guns when I went to a museum in Maggie Valley, NC area. Cherokee home before Trail of Tears forced trip to Oklahoma reservation. Cherokee most certainly used blow guns. Not sure if the Yella hammer myth is true, but blow guns did exist. I Googled Cherokee and blow guns and got this along with other sites. It is from the Cherokee Oklahoma (http://www.cherokeeheritage.org/attractions/blowguns/) Heritage Center.

 

Most of the bamboo is not native to the United States, however Sitch Cane is. I hunt woodcock and have learned to identify Switch cane and Chinese Privet like an expert on Bing Maps. Both are southern US woodcock habitat indicators.

[breambuster 0]

Thanks, Troutguy. Very interesting. Also, thanks, Horseshoes, I'll let you know when your flies arrive. And Mikechell, I knew you weren't arguing, but I was just identifying my source.

 

BB

[netabrookie 0]

Well folks, I stand corrected....I think. After a bit of searching and reading and an hour and a half phone call with my sister I have to agree with the evidence presented before me...to a degree. She has also visited the museum and remembered a few things about the blowgun. If proof is presented to me I usually agree completely and in this case I have been convinced that they were used, but the Cherokee nation was a vast area and it still bothers me that after all the hours of reading about the Indians of the mountains and their way of life nothing was ever mentioned of blowguns. I am probably wrong and just being stubborn but I can't let it go. The Indians of the lower lands had access to the river cane and, as evidence has shown, utilized it . Possibly, the cane was transported to the higher mountains and they too utilized it to make blowguns and other things also. It is just bothering me that after all the years and all of the books, this is the first that I have ever heard of it. Now, more books and more research....

 

Sorry to ramble and babble about something that has nothing to do with fly tying except for how the original feathers were obtained.

 

Now I will be a little worried when I backpack back in the mountains because I might find the temple of doom lurking out there in some hidden valley.

[netabrookie 0]

Like I said before...I can't let it go. I try hard to be open minded and I may have thought of something that didn't occur to me before. There is several fall festivals around here and one of the big attractions is the making of molasses. If the sugar cane and river cane are the same or similar then there must be a source locally because a horse drawn wagon wasn't going to venture too far to get the cane. If the generations before me made molasses then I guess the local Indians could have made blowguns that were never mentioned in the books that I have read.

 

Breambuster, I hope that you haven't gotten annoyed with me. I never questioned or doubted you at all. I read the same thing that you did about the flies origin a while back. I thought about the name and realized that a lot of folks around here actually say "yeller". I guess my northern Virginia childhood stuck with me a bit because I say "yellow". My wife and I laugh sometimes because she says "tater" and i say potato, she says man-naise and i say mayo-naise . I am in no way making fun of southern speech because I say a lot of things that are a dead give a way that i am a southern boy, i reckon I just ain't gonna fess up to it right now.

 

Soooooooo.....I guess my final answer is that there must have been blowguns in these here hills.

[Piker20 0]

My flies are skipping and skating their way across the pond.

[breambuster 0]

Thanks, Piker, I'll let you know when they get here.

 

Netabrookie, "annoyed with" you? For Heaven sakes, NO. I think it's been an interesting discussion. I really don't have a dog in the hunt. I just thought it was an interesting story. We hear about fly fishermen coming up with new ideas for flies, like Lee Wulff, etc, all the time, but that was the first story I had ever heard about a Native American inventing a fly, and I thought it was a neat story. That's all. And by the way, I say "Man-naise" also. I grew up in a mill village called Taylors, just outside of Greenville, SC. The son of a mill worker who could name a number of Uncles and older relatives who lived on the mountains. My Grandmother was from good, mountain stock, and could tell some awesome stories about her childhood. She grew up on what is known as "Glassy Mountain" in Greenville County. I plan to retire in Oconee County, SC, which has about as much of SC's little slice of mountains as anywhere in the state, not to mention the Chattooga River where the movie "Deliverance" was filmed. We already have our house there and are counting down the days.

 

BB

[netabrookie 0]

Breambuster, I am very relieved because i don't want to offend anyone. My sister is really into the ancestory stuff and she has mentioned several times about distant relatives in South Carolina. Who knows, maybe we are 29th cousins or something. I have worked a lot in SC, mainly near the coast, and have found no other place with the average folks being so friendly. I have done a very poor job in planning for my retirement. If I don't croak I should have my little acre and a half paid for in about 6 1/2 years and will more than likely work until I quit breathing. My retirement will most likely be when I chase that last Brookie up some beautiful mountain stream and then sit down on a rock and slip over into the great unknown. When you finally retire, be sure to keep an eye out for Burt Reynolds and Ned Beatty because we all know how Hollywood is with their movie sequels.

Take Care,

Tony

[mikechell 0]

Tony ... we are ALWAYS annoyed with you. Notice I said WITH you, not AT you.

Too many similar gripes about the rest of the world to be annoyed AT you.

 

I knew the Central American and South American tribes and civilizations had blow guns. It's only normal to think the North American tribes would use one, too. It's not the lack of ingenuity I question ... it's the lack of material and need. Blowguns work well in the close confines of a tropical forest. In the open, it's just not long range enough to be much use.

 

Again, I am not arguing ... and I, TOO, will be researching this further.

 

As far as the invention of the fly ... this I find highly doubtful. Indians didn't fish for "sport". They fished for food. Bone hooks were used in waters that were too dark or stained to see fish. In clear water ... a long "spear" or pronged shaft is much more effective at collecting food for your tribe.