skeet3t 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 I tie an Adams without wings. Not fully convinced that they are needed. A survey of hundreds of trout over the last 25 years seems to confirm it. I call it Simple Simon- dry fly hook #12-16, tan thread, tail of 3 or 4 dark feather filaments, tan dubbing, brown or ginger hackle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyquahog 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 H. ... you won’t find many mayflies on the Swift (below the dam to Caddy Lane) if at all. I’ve seen a few Hendricksons or red quills but not enough to want to fish them. This water is pounded non stop so each trout gets quite an education. There is a group of guys that go real real small with midges. My success on top was usually terrestrials, ants, beetles, crickets, inch worms, bees and so on Subsurface it was buggers, pt nymphs and leeches. Although not very sporting I did sight fish with yarn egg flies at the Y pool which is stupid fishing. So back to Catskills style. I did have a great day below the dam on the Deerfield with the light Cahill. While they are beautiful and have great history they have lost quite a bit of popularity because we just don’t see as many of the big mayfly hatches that many of these patterns represent. A stream I once fished with amazing hatches in the 80’s is practically dry now since both a ski mountain and golf course are sucking up the aquifer. The new condo developments didn’t help either. As mentioned the bivisible looks easy as does the “conover” to start with. Tight wraps and tight lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niveker 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 @haziz I have not read Mr. Valla's book, so not sure how he presents his material, however, in tying that 'style' of fly, I think technique is most important so would work on my material and thread control to produce the slim body and tightly packed hackle. I fish the Swift at least weekly, and though you are correct about the size of the hatches, the further south on that river you go, the larger the mayflies get. Tan, light ginger, pale yellow and the like are good colors, rarely larger than a #12, but that doesn't mean you cannot tie on a larger dry fly and still get fish. Also, the tiny BWO's, #18 and smaller, are also prevalent throughout (depending on the weather), sometimes with very dark wings. I do fish dry mayfly patterns there, when I want to torture myself, but usually in a comparadun or usual style (hairwings) as they are easier and cheaper to tie, and sit lower in the water, also smaller (<14) elk and deer hair caddis with tan or rusty bodies and no hackle do well for me, but if I want to fish a dry, i'll tie on an ant or hopper pattern as often as not. I was out there yesterday morning and took some rainbows, browns, and brookies on a Dave's Hopper as the day warmed up. But, 80% of the time on that river I go below the surface and do well with the variations on the basics: pheasant tail nymphs, gold ribbed hare's ear, black/brown stoneflies, and lately, streamers. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocco 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 IMO it is very hard for a nubee to do the traditional Catskills justice. It takes a fine eye for proportion, refined techniques, near perfect materials, and lots of time on the vise. Its a great goal to pursue but short cuts are illusory and the learning curve gradual. Amen on bivisibles. I'd also look into the skater spider pattern. It is a long forgotten and relatively easy pattern to tie -- a thin tail, slim body, and an oversize, stiff, prime hackle. It is fun to fish as it dances on the hackle tips and evokes slashing strikes even from wise old browns. Ed Storey's crackle back patterns are also easy and deadly start up dries. Rocco Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, johnnyquahog said: H. ... you won’t find many mayflies on the Swift (below the dam to Caddy Lane) if at all. I’ve seen a few Hendricksons or red quills but not enough to want to fish them. I haven't fished the Swift in at least ten years, but I've had tremendous success there with sufurs, with pretty decent hatches. I hope that hasn't changed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niveker 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 22 minutes ago, redietz said: I hope that hasn't changed. There is a steady, but not heavy, hatch: The waxwings go crazy for them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
samsonboi 0 Report post Posted July 19, 2020 Regarding the Bivisible and wingless posts- there are no Catskill flies without wings. Catskill denotes flies with forward collared hackle, (usually bunched feather) wings and a tail. Some of Rube Cross's flies have a very small body-palmered hackle as well but the forward hackle is always bigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 I like all the suggestions that everyone has shared with you and trust me there are a really good fly tiers on here that have given you some great input. One thing that I would suggest I buy yourself a hen neck for wing on the Adam's and only practice tying in just the wings this will give you the the time at the vise to work on placement of wings as well height once you have become happy the way the wing look then finish of with a whip set that aside and start with a new hook and work on the tail and body then when you have these where you are content the try the whole fly you will be looking back in a year from now and remember when your fly tying journey all started and remember that there are a lot of great people on here that will be more than happy to help good luck and never stop trying what you might think is hard in fly tying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 3 hours ago, samsonboi said: Regarding the Bivisible and wingless posts- there are no Catskill flies without wings. Catskill denotes flies with forward collared hackle, (usually bunched feather) wings and a tail. Some of Rube Cross's flies have a very small body-palmered hackle as well but the forward hackle is always bigger. No, it doesn't. It denotes flies that originated in the Catskills. Edward Ringwood Hewiit's Bivisible is an iconic Catskill fly and is strongly associated with the Neversink River, its birthplace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamieofthenorth 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 Another recommendation for the Bivisible. Wicked easy to tie and very effective as well. A lot of great history with the Catskill flies, good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petelangevin 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 Haziz have you been to the deerfield fly shop? Check out their website they give recommendations in match the hatch sizes and colors. Could be a starting point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moshup 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, redietz said: No, it doesn't. It denotes flies that originated in the Catskills. Edward Ringwood Hewiit's Bivisible is an iconic Catskill fly and is strongly associated with the Neversink River, its birthplace. Redietz Hewitt certainly popularized the Bivisible but he was not it’s creator nor was the Neversink it’s birthplace as it had Michigan origins as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 7 hours ago, Mogup said: Redietz Hewitt certainly popularized the Bivisible but he was not it’s creator nor was the Neversink it’s birthplace as it had Michigan origins as well. No according to anything I've read in the last 50 years (and I've read a lot). Mike Valla credited it to Hewitt in Tying Catskill Style Dry Flies, and that in itself is good enough for me. It's possible some variant other than the brown was first used elsewhere, I suppose. And then there's Hewitt's skaters and Flick's Variants, other wingless Catskill dries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
samsonboi 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 10 hours ago, redietz said: No, it doesn't. It denotes flies that originated in the Catskills. Edward Ringwood Hewiit's Bivisible is an iconic Catskill fly and is strongly associated with the Neversink River, its birthplace. Catskill dry flies are a type. That style of flies originated in the Catskills with Theodore Gordon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redietz 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2020 Just now, samsonboi said: Catskill dry flies are a type. That style of flies originated in the Catskills with Theodore Gordon. I suggest you pick up Mike Valla's book. In addition to the Bivisible, both Hewitt's skaters and Flick's Variants are wingless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites