Respect?

[Poopdeck 0]

On 8/1/2020 at 5:08 PM, Mark Knapp said:

The subject comes up all the time on this site. More times than not the thread winds up being deleted because the conversation turns into a heated argument before we get to talk about it much.

I hope that we can talk about these things without it blowing up into a "thing". Please no name calling or insults. I think we can disagree (if we disagree) without insulting each other. I have disagreed, at times, with many people on here but I "like" and respect all of you.

Did you really expect  somebody would reply advocating for the wanton mis-handling of fish, littering, boat swamping and the such that a plea for respect of others opinions was needed first? 

i consider myself very easy going and not much really bothers me when I'm fishing. Except jet skies. I hate jet skis but not necessarily the operators. I don't go out fishing to get pissed off and I don't. 

 I find most boaters don't know the boating laws so it's not about respect/disrespectful and is more like ignorance . On the other hand it really doesnt bother me when somebody whizzes past me because, again, I'm not looking for reasons to get upset or angry. I'm out to fish and enjoy myself despite others around me, who are also probably enjoying themselves without having a clue they are being disrespectful.   I don't allow myself to feel offended or dissed without knowing someone's true intentions as I believe most people are not out there trying to be disrespectful and are generally good people but maybe a little misguided. 

I do every type of fishing that is out there and I really really hate the hierarchy some anglers like to apply to other anglers. This is true disrespect used for their own selfish feeling of enlightenment in the name of sportsmanship. Bait fisherman, power bait crowd, and heaven forbid, those who use barbless hooks. Yes it is unfortunate that it is largely the fly fishing crowd that like to belittle the angling pursuits of others with these pinheaded labels. Happens to be one of the reasons I like this site. I can come on here I talk about catching carp on corn, stripers on spinning gear or whatever on a flyrod and nobody judges. Or at least they don't post judgemental comments. 

I will end with the fact that we were all young once. We all learned what we do over time and some are still in the learning process. Some people may have forgotten this, or are still in the life learning stage themselves. I believe the intent of the original post is about learning and not preaching or finger pointing. We should all strive to accept the opinions and legal actions of others and stop worrying about who is the bigger sportsman. 

By the way, I think I might barf if I have to hear one more story about taking a  bag of trash out with you when you leave.. I'm not calling anybody a liar, I'm just saying I read this ad nauseam but have never witnessed an angler walking around with a hefty sack over his shoulder in over 50 years of fishing. Just saying. 

[Mark Knapp 0]

4 hours ago, samsonboi said:

Would add one thing to respect fish- specific guidelines. Barbless (or crushed barbs) or at the very least micro barbed hooks on any fish you intend to release. @TIER If you're going to release them, keep them IN THE WATER and don't use a coarse-holed knotted net either. Don't lift them out of the water and don't squeeze them.

 

Even if you're keeping fish, you don't want to cause unnecessary pain. Respect them and dispatch them humanely with a clean, well-placed blow from a "priest" or well-directed force instantly breaking their neck, just like you would want to do with an accurate bullet (or shotgun blast) if you were hunting.

Remember that even if you don't care about the fishes' suffering (!) a lot of stress (from suffocation and/or extreme or continuous pain, of course) will build up toxins in the flesh. They won't hurt you, but they will make the fish taste bad.

 

3 hours ago, Landon P said:

+1 thank you for saying what everyone was thinking!

It's not my intent to start another thread to pick on TIER.

 

[Mark Knapp 0]

4 minutes ago, Poopdeck said:

Did you really expect  somebody would reply advocating for the wanton mis-handling of fish, littering, boat swamping and the such that a plea for respect of others opinions was needed first? 

i consider myself very easy going and not much really bothers me when I'm fishing. Except jet skies. I hate jet skis but not necessarily the operators. I don't go out fishing to get pissed off and I don't. 

 I find most boaters don't know the boating laws so it's not about respect/disrespectful and is more like ignorance . On the other hand it really doesnt bother me when somebody whizzes past me because, again, I'm not looking for reasons to get upset or angry. I'm out to fish and enjoy myself despite others around me, who are also probably enjoying themselves without having a clue they are being disrespectful.   I don't allow myself to feel offended or dissed without knowing someone's true intentions as I believe most people are not out there trying to be disrespectful and are generally good people but maybe a little misguided. 

I do every type of fishing that is out there and I really really hate the hierarchy some anglers like to apply to other anglers. This is true disrespect used for their own selfish feeling of enlightenment in the name of sportsmanship. Bait fisherman, power bait crowd, and heaven forbid, those who use barbless hooks. Yes it is unfortunate that it is largely the fly fishing crowd that like to belittle the angling pursuits of others with these pinheaded labels. Happens to be one of the reasons I like this site. I can come on here I talk about catching carp on corn, stripers on spinning gear or whatever on a flyrod and nobody judges. Or at least they don't post judgemental comments. 

I will end with the fact that we were all young once. We all learned what we do over time and some are still in the learning process. Some people may have forgotten this, or are still in the life learning stage themselves. I believe the intent of the original post is about learning and not preaching or finger pointing. We should all strive to accept the opinions and legal actions of others and stop worrying about who is the bigger sportsman. 

By the way, I think I might barf if I have to hear one more story about taking a  bag of trash out with you when you leave.. I'm not calling anybody a liar, I'm just saying I read this ad nauseam but have never witnessed an angler walking around with a hefty sack over his shoulder in over 50 years of fishing. Just saying. 

I waited patiently for your reply and it was worth the wait.

My list of pleas was in no particular order, putting no more importance on any of them.

I personally think that respect for others doesn't (or shouldn't) come from understanding or observance of laws. To the contrary, I think that laws and observance of them should come from respect for others.

Laws are just the minimums or maximums of acceptable behavior. So, even if there isn't a "No wake" zone posted, or a law that says you should slow down when you pass other boaters, we should still do it in respect for others and, to not do it is (in my mind) disrespectful, weather or not that person intended to be. It doesn't mean I need to take action or let it ruin my day but...I could still write about it in a forum.

Yes, some of the people on this forum are young. It's interesting to me that two of the youngest people on this forum have had the most to say about one of the other youngest people on this forum.

I wrote my post because I remember what it's like to be young. I think that if we don't talk about mistakes people make when they are young, they may still be making them when they are older. That is how society shapes behavior.

My thread isn't about pointing fingers. (See the post I wrote while you were writing yours) It's about acceptable and unacceptable behavior. When society decides what is and what isn't acceptable, we must comply or be the subject of ridicule on forums like this (at the very least) or go to jail (at the most).

I have never seen a full garbage bag on the shoulder of fisherman either but I do know a lot of (fishing) people that have picked up way more than their fair share. A friend of mine will always clean up a landing while I'm getting the boat ready to launch . Even if there weren't littering laws, it's my opinion that it takes a huge amount of disrespect to everyone else and everything natural for someone to leave their crap in the woods and in the water.

In closing, I know many of your remarks are not meant for me in particular (if they were you would have had to misunderstand me entirely), and mine are not meant for you in particular. Only for the better understanding of all.

Thanks Poopdeck

[Steeldrifter 0]

I always respect the fish as much as I can and not overhandle them or cause undue stress. For trout if the water temp gets over 70f then I wont even fish for them. When I land them I try to always use a net to keep from overplaying them, plus that way I don't have to lay them on the ground anymore than I have too because I'll usually try to put the net between them and the ground if I can.

Far as fishing close to someone. I hate that. IMO I try not to get within 50 yards of someone else. Not everyone is like that though. Nothing makes my blood boil more than some jerk stepping in with in 20ft of me. That's just rude.

Cleaning up trash. I do it every time I'm on the river, anyone that has ever fished with me can tell you that. Like Greg said I'm not hauling out 30g trash bags full. But what I normally do is I will fish my way downstream, then when I'm done I'll walk back and usually grab any trash I see like cans and worm containers and line and such and I'll usually use my net as a temp garbage holder till I get back to the parking area so I can dump it in a can.

[Mark Knapp 0]

"stop worrying about who is the bigger sportsman." This is a tricky thing and you've touched on it a couple of times. I, like you Poopdeck, like to fish in every legal way I can, including spearfishing. I like fly fishing more than conventional because I feel like it's more challenging, I don't think it makes me better.

We call it "sportfishing". We look up the regulations in the "Sportfishing regulations" pamphlet. If I spearfish, does that make me less of a sportsman than someone who only fly fishes? I'm not sure.

I think that fishing with a barbless fly is more challenging, and by definition more sporting than fishing with spinning gear and a jointed Rapala with three treble hooks on it, but I don't think it makes me less of a sportsman to fish the Rapala. I don't often fish with barbless flies but I have crushed the barbs on hooks.

I think hunting successfully with a bow (not just flinging arrows all over the place) is more challenging than hunting with a high powered rifle, but I don't think it takes less of a sportsman to hunt with a rifle.

I don't think that catching a lot of fish makes me a better sportsman. I don't think taking a picture of a fish makes me less of a sportsman.

I think that some of the things that make me a better sportsman than I might have been when I was younger are things like;

• Keeping five 24 inch class pike for eating this winter and letting the 42 inch one go.
• Using a deep water release for non-pelagic rock fish long before it became mandatory.
• Equipping our pike lures with single-hooks and crushing the barbs on them.
• Generally, doing things in a more "sportsmanlike" manor. (If that makes sense)

Alternately, I would say that;

• Those who breaks the law are not sportsmen.
• I personally don't like to say things like "Rip some lips" or "That duck fell like a S*%t load of bricks" I think it's unsportsmanlike.
• I don't like to let fish flop around on the rocks or bounce around on the bottom of a boat.
• I don't like to hunt from the back of a truck although it's legal and customarily done in quite a few countries.

I'm not very worried about comparing myself to others, but I would like to be the best sportsman that I can be.

[The Mad Duck 0]

7 hours ago, Steeldrifter said:

Far as fishing close to someone. I hate that. IMO I try not to get within 50 yards of someone else. Not everyone is like that though. Nothing makes my blood boil more than some jerk stepping in with in 20ft of me. That's just rude.

Its been my experience the "tournament" type bass fishermen with boats that go 100mph are the worst in regards to respecting space. I cant tell you how many times,while fishing in my kayak, that I have had these boats come screaming down a river or creek and either...

1. Zip by at 60 mph, coming close to tipping me over.

2. Stop and ease 20 feet in front of you to fish "their" chosen spot. That really gets on my last nerve and I let them know. I do enjoy catching fish as they fish through first and watch them catch nothing. The expression on their faces as I pull a nice Bass from the space they just vacated, is priceless.  Once the finish fishing "their" spot, the engine cranks up and they take off in a drag race start burning the shoreline for everyone else.

 

[DFoster 0]

“Do onto others as you would have them do onto you”   - The amazing golden rule.

When put into practice it almost always prevents bad feelings, anger, name calling, fist fighting and landowners from posting their property.

[Landon P 0]

So since were kinda on the subject of fish handling what is the proper way? Is it proper to fight them as fast as possible then get them in a net and leave them there in the water untill your ready to get the hook out and take a picture? 

[xterrabill 0]

at least 2 times a year I hear, "why you put back?", usually in broken English by someone who starts fishing next to me (bass under size) I never keep bass anyway.

they see all the signage with size limits posted all over, some refuse to put anything back, they know its illegal and don't care, they have 3-4 rods and tell me how they fish at every forest preserve all around the area and have been.

I tell them its illegal to keep undersize fish, they don't respond or say "I don't care"!

I always bring a bucket to sit on, it has trash in it when I leave, usually beer cans, (no alcohol is allowed btw) garbage not mine.

every other time I go someone will walk up right behind me while I am fly casting, Saturday morning a woman walked up and was 3 feet right next to me,

its a small pond, 12 acres in a forest preserve park, open everywhere, but she just had to walk up next to me, never said a word to me, never stopped talking on her phone,

the park was empty!!!! only 2 other people there! its covid high around here, no mask, and I go to a spot that's harder to get to but is easily seen.

if I fish on one of the 2 piers (I rarely do), someone will walk up behind me at least 2-3 times every 4 hours, they leave trash on the pier and there

is a garbage can right there!

a few IDNR law enforcement officers recognize me, they always stop by and say hello, I have pointed out a few poachers to them.

respect?

I am like Rodney Dangerfield!

for the past few years I cant afford to take trips like I used to, try fishing in urban areas for a couple years,

then you will know why I stopped fishing/tying for 2 years,  try telling these people to go barbless?, defund the police? that will defund DNR also?, welcome to a sanctuary city area.

it will only get worse, this is not the same country it was when I was young that's for sure.

btw

the pond/small lake I fish was studied and has the cleanest water of all forest preserve lakes in northern Illinois,

I have fished this pond for almost 25 years and have been watching it get destroyed.

we are not the ones to bitch about or at here on this site, not from my perspective.

 

[Rocco 0]

There are some things that are time honored in terms of good  practices as fly fishing sportsmen and some that are new. Among the latter are constraints at first based on  personal judgments -- that is an avoidance of actions that are fully legal  and even generally acceptable,  but that  you just don't or won't do based on personal standards.  ( Arguably, this doesn't make you a better person or sportsman -- just different in your choices.)

It seems to me that, over time, more folks are speaking out on their personal standards and generally moving the margin of acceptable behavior towards more restrictive -- enlightened? -- behavioral taboos. For example, keeping fish in the water as you release them is fast becoming a judgmental norm for behavior. I also sense a shift away from the use of extreme UL tackle -- 0 wt rods for example -- that tires out fish and reduces their chances of survival after release.  

Everyone --most? many of us? -- has such personal hobby horses.  Mine -- which I am inflicting on no one else -- is a strong aversion for competitive fly fishing.

 

 

 

      

[Steeldrifter 0]

1 hour ago, Landon P said:

So since were kinda on the subject of fish handling what is the proper way? Is it proper to fight them as fast as possible then get them in a net and leave them there in the water untill your ready to get the hook out and take a picture? 

Yes , but IMO it can be taken too far by some people. You'll hear/see guys that don't take a fish out of the water, never get a pic , always use barbless, never touch the fish, if you are doing that then there's nothing "wrong" with that, but to me I like to get a picture for a memory and that does not hurt the fish. Being an aquarium fish keeper like I am, I can tell you fish are a lot tougher than we give them credit for. With that said I think simple common sense is all it takes. If you are using barbed hook (personally I do not care for barbless) then if the fish gets hooked in a spot that is hard to remove then crush the barb and back the fly out. Don't let a fight go on longer than is really needed. Keep it in the net in the water until you have the camera out, but you are not hurting anything by taking it out of the water and snapping a quick pic or two. Just basic common sense stuff is all it takes imo.

[chugbug27 0]

Conformity is overrated.

[xterrabill 0]

Just now, chugbug27 said:

Conformity is overrated.

LOL....coffee just went everywhere.

[Steeldrifter 0]

What if you conform to nonconformity?

[Mark Knapp 0]

What if you decide for yourself that you are going to be nicer to fish. I feel so much better about myself when I let a real trophy fish go.