Fly line advice

[Guest]

21 hours ago, denduke said:

.. pick that up in one motion, nada...you’re shooting lots of it, rolling it,  but you gotta get it up and started after stripping it all the way back

I got yah Capn.  That’s what you gotta do.   Catching yellowtails at BahiaHonda bridge I would quickly work out a manageable distance shoot as much as I could cross current and actually feed out line anticipating when the fly got deep to the bridge piling and stripping it all the way back for next cast and rolling it to get it up and moving.  It’s about 20’+ deep ripping current.  Most takes were at end of drift.  Later as the oatmeal chum started working the snapper came up some and a shorter drift worked. Also caught other stuff but never got a tarpon to take when the big schools came thru rolling...

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

For tarpon working deep, slow way down and use a big black fly... with long strips (each one about 24” long) and a little twitch at the end of each strip... Not for nothing it’s called dredging.

[robow7 0]

Yes, I definitely cast and fish at greater distances than 50 feet when I'm fishing low, slow, and clear water for smallies on some of our wider more open rivers.  Get too close and or make one too many false casts and they're gone.

As to the over abundance of line types out there, I agree with others when they feel it is predominantly marketing and dollars driven.  I get a kick out of the species select lines such as Rio's Smallmouth line.  Is it ideal when I'm throwing large lightweight air resistant top waters or is it better when I'm throwing large articulated heavily weighted streamers that weigh 2 lbs ? and can I still use it to cast similar flies to largemouth or northern pike ?  Ha  Give me just a well made Bass Bug taper that floats high and dry and I'll decide what I'm going to use it for.  

[mikechell 0]

1 hour ago, robow7 said:

streamers that weigh 2 lbs

???

[robow7 0]

Hyperbole Mike, they just seem like they weigh 2 lbs when casting.

[mikechell 0]

😄

[skeet3t 0]

Got an $11 line off Fleabay for my grandson's first outfit. It's a 5 wt. DT and casts great. Can't remember the brand. I wonder how we got along 60 years ago with the very limited types and numbers of line weights available. Now it seems marketing is telling us we need a different line for each fly.

Saw one fly that was described as the size of a pullet.🐥

[Sandan 0]

On 11/22/2020 at 12:28 PM, mikemac1 said:

I spend 50-60 days a year on the water ....   A high-quality fly line is essential to my success. 

Cut for brevity and I don't live in MT.  Might bea bit off topic but, keeping that line clean is also essential for a myriad of reasons.

[utyer 0]

I am in the same OLD guy pool.  I have fished with lots of "high end" lines all through the years I was working in the tackle industry.  I got good value from them since they were free most of the time.   I now use inexpensive lines that are closeouts, or from less well known brands.  I see no difference in these lines.  I can destroy a line in lots of different ways that are MY fault, not the line's.  There is a lot of marketing in lines that is unnecessary in my view.  No body needs a different line for every water temperature, or species.  I catch every thing that swims with the same lines.  Matching the line to the rod is the first consideration and then the presentation depth second.  That's all I care about.  

 

[Sandan 0]

On 11/22/2020 at 7:15 PM, SilverCreek said:

What say you fishers. Is casting 50 feet of fly line out of the guides difficult for most fly fishers?

Now that, sir, is an interesting question.  Personally 50' of fly line out of guides, no problem, no double haul.  What makes it interesting to me is something that's just so far anecdotal. As most of us have noticed, trout fishers in particularly I believe, is the great influx of new to the sport participants. They get a guide and the guide shows them how to nymph w/ an indicator as that's quick, easy to learn (relatively speaking) and usually productive. The average length of that cast, I'd say 2-3 rod lengths (18'-27'). That's lobbing the rig upstream. That fisher has no reason to learn of use a 50' line out of the guides cast, so they don't bother with it. On the other hand dry fly fishing to spooky trout in clear water might take at least a 50' line out of the guides cast to reach the fish you want. That fisher has to learn how to cast for both distance and accuracy.  Streamer/spey 50' you gotta be able to.  So I'll say that the well rounded fly fisher can make the 50' line out of the guides cast.  Is that person the "most" or is it the person indy nymphing cause that's all they know how to do?  Now I'll throw in another factor, just because a fly fisher can chuck 50' of line out of the guides they have to be accurate enough to put the fly where they want it. That cast I'd say is difficult for most fly fishers. Add wind and it's even few fly fishers who can do it. Just my $.02 as your question @SilverCreek got me thinking. 

[SilverCreek 0]

One of the places I like to fish is Hebgen Lake just outside of West Yellowstone, Mt. There is a callibaetis hatch that occurs every day during the summer. It is reliable and you can just about set your watch by the appearance of these flies. They appear at about 9 AM and the fishing is great until the winds begin to pick up between 11AM and Noon.

https://www.yellowstoneflyfishing.com/hebgen.htm

"In mid-June, the littoral zone weed beds where the Callibaetis thrive, are less sporadic and they will emerge as the days and nights become warmer. The important thing to remember about the early season Callibaetis is the emerger stage. Under the right conditions and location, the nymph and Emerger fishing is exceptional just look for the weed beds. Callibaetis emerge every day in June, July and August. If you know when and where to find them, it's dry fly emerger fishing at its finest. During June and July and into late August, the Callibaetis can be in the millions and the spinner becomes king. It's important to remember Callibaetis are multi-brooded and emerge from June to September. No other insect besides the Midge last as long. No other body of water in and around Yellowstone National Park maintains such a prolific hatch."

 

In a lake, the fish move to the flies. The flies do NOT MOVE to the fish. So you need to gauge which direction the fish is moving and how fast it is moving to cast your fly so that it intercepts the fish.

Since I wade fish, the further I can cast and the faster I can get the cast out, the more fish I can reach. The area a fly caster can reach is measured by the area inside an arc which is proportional to the Radius squared.

In other words, if you one person can cast 40 feet and another 50 feet, the 50 foot caster can reach 57% more area which is 57% more fish. Because the area inside an arc is determined by radius squared, the difference is the casting 50 feet casting radius is 25% more but the casting area is 57% more. If you can cast 70 feet, then the R squared effect means you can reach 3 times the area or 200% more fish than a person that can only cast 40 feet.

Every foot of extra distance is magnified by the R squared effect. That is why I use a 10 ft G Loomis GLX on Hebgen lake.

[Guest]

Excellent explanation SC.... pi r squared...no pies are round 😛

[mikemac1 0]

I cannot agree more with @silvercreek.  Distance will get you more fish, especially if you are blind casting big water.  I spent the morning pounding the edge of several holes and channels at the mouth of Tampa Bay.  A high tide forced me much farther from the edges than a typical low tide.  The ability to reach those edges with long casts generated fish.  Long casts equates to the old saying “Cover the water”.

[skeet3t 0]

Pie are round. Cornbread are square unless you use the same cast iron skillet for both then they are round. Who cares as long as they taste good!

 

[SilverCreek 0]

I wrote about fishing Hebgen Lake in another Fly fishing BB. Maybe it will help someone who fishes there someday.

In a lake, the fish MOVES to the food. That means you HAVE TO PREDICT WHERE the fish is going to be WHEN your FLY LANDS!!!

That means you need to know what DIRECTION the fish is moving and how FAST the fish is moving so you can INTERCEPT the fish. The way you do that is to read the rise. 

Below is an illustration of 4 types of rises. In rises 3 and 4, you will see the body, dorsal fin and/or tail of the trout. This will tell you the direction and speed of the fish.

In the rises below, you cannot see the fish BUT you can still tell the direction and speed of the fish. Note that there is a HIGH and LOW side to the rise form. The HIGH SIDE IS THE DIRECTION THE FISH IS MOVING and the HIGHER the edge, the FASTER the fish was moving during the rise.

So what direction was the fish moving in the rise above? The fish was moving from right to left. 

How about the rises below? What is the direction and speed of the fish?

[

Another thing you need to be aware of is structure. For Hebgen and perhaps the lake you will be fishing, the fish generally will NOT enter a weed bed. So if the direction of travel is towards and weed bed, the fish will turn and you need to guess whether the fish will turn left or right and then cast there. 

Some fish will ALWAYS turn one way so if you have a fish that you have seen turn in one direction before, I always choose that same direction of turn.

If the fish will not take your fly, it may not just be the fly. Be aware of your leader design. On Hebgen, long leaders and tippets are more effective for dries because the fish are heavily fished.

Unlike fishing in a river, the in Hebgen fish are wary of any slack in the leader. A serpentine tippet impression on the water surface will spook the fish and sometimes a mudded (treated with a mud) tippet that is dull and sunken works better. So after I cast, I immediately pull on the fly line to straighten the leader. It is counter intuitive for someone who fishes rivers; but if you see a fish turn away or not take your fly, it could be the impression of the leader on the water surface.