Hackle gague

[McFlyLures 0]

The grade of a neck basically has nothing to do with size, maybe with the quantity of a given size. It's the location you pick them from.

Well, Ive got different farms also. Mets, kosh, etc. just saying that some of my necks have Webbier fibers others dont, some are more micro barbed others arent. Hard to really tell. I actually need to get better necks honestly. But a gague will be cheaper for now. Haha

[flyty1 0]

Whatever method you choose, I think the whole aim is consistancy - your #20 dry flies should look like a reduced version of a #12.

[Crackaig 0]

The main problem I have with gauges is you need a different one for each different model of hook. I include hackle size on the same slip of card I mark all the other sizes for a specific pattern & size. I know some people strip all the hackles off the skin and size them all. Once you have done that storing them takes up much more space.

There is one thing I wonder about though. If this kind of accuracy is required for the hackle on a dry fly, it must be required for all other components. If a dry fly has a dubbed body, how do you measure out the dubbing with the same precision? Serious interest as I am looking to produce a tabulated list of colour mixtures for a new VN dubbing. 1g, or even 1 grain, of dubbing is quite a lot, but is seriously difficult to measure out. So how do you measure dubbing with the same precision you want to measure hackle?

Cheers,

C.

[Moshup 0]

You'll find that after using the gauge for awhile and tying dries up of various sizes that you won't need it as much. Good luck with the dries. They are my favorite to tie.

[Gene L 0]

The importance of proper sizing hackles is first, if you over hackle lengthwise, the fly won't sit properly in the water. Too long, and the tail will tend to dip. Too short and the fly will be front heavy and won't float properly. I've never used an expensive gauge, so don't see the advantages of re-inventing the wheel. After a while using one, you'll probably be able to use your eyes and disregard the need for the gauge at all.

 

The second thing is appearance. And it's secondary to the first instance. May not mean a lot to the fish, so long as it floats properly, but means a lot to me. I never get an exhibition fly but it's fun to try.

[chugbug27 0]

+1 Crackaig

@mcfly,

Your first ones will be more messy than you'd like (not just with hackle length) but after you get used to using the hook method it will work fine, you'll get a sense of how long the hackles should be just like you get re the taper of a body, length of tail, length of legs, etc.

 

Though mine are far from perfect I don't use a gauge because often you tie hackle over other materials, and then especially for smaller flies the hook method becomes the more accurate method (I think). Also, I want to develop a better sense of proportion the more flies I tie, which I won't learn to do as well with the gauge.

[McFlyLures 0]

While Im not great at dries, I have tied many many many other flies all which include palmering hackle. I have tied quite a few dries already as well, but more simple patterns (Matts midge, griffiths, and hoppers) Ive also tied a few Adams dries. But lately Ive gotten into some parachute style Flies which require a bit more precision in my thoughts. While mine arent yet as good as some of the other dries Ive seen posted on here, I have gotten down the even and clean hackle placement. Sticks out strait, captured properly without stray fibers over the eye, etc...

 

As for gagueing the other materials, I measure most everything against the hook shank. Somehow thats easier than measuring hackle against the gap. However they probably arent perfect, luckily though fish arent as picky as I am, or most tiers I know. Ive csugt quite a few on a small deer hair with a hackle head fly Ive been tying a few of lately.

[tjm 0]

 

I measure most everything against the hook shank. Somehow thats easier than measuring hackle against the gap

The shank is the gauge. The gape is 2/3 the hackle size or the hackle is 1.5 the gape. The shank is also 1.5 the gape, so is just right as a gauge, Nothing could be faster, and the bonus is when you change hooks the shank is still the perfect size. Think about this; the rule is "hackle should 1.5 times the gape" and this means that for sure enough accuracy, we would need to micrometer the gape of every hook and then do the math and then search for the feather.

I'm sure the gauges are about as accurate as the hook they are based on, but how do they match up to another model or brand of hook?

 

 

hook shank equals 1 1/2 the hook gape. hackle should equal shank length

And flytire also presented pictures to illustrate the "proper" proportions.

The thing is that these "rules" are based on approximation the folks that stated that the hackle should be a gape and a half long did not measure either the gape nor the hackle, the rule-makers used an eyeball guess.

 

my guess is almost all dry flies smaller than #20 have over sized hackle, I know all the small dries I see in fly shops seem to have.

[Gene L 0]

While Im not great at dries, I have tied many many many other flies all which include palmering hackle. I have tied quite a few dries already as well, but more simple patterns (Matts midge, griffiths, and hoppers) Ive also tied a few Adams dries. But lately Ive gotten into some parachute style Flies which require a bit more precision in my thoughts. While mine arent yet as good as some of the other dries Ive seen posted on here, I have gotten down the even and clean hackle placement. Sticks out strait, captured properly without stray fibers over the eye, etc...

 

As for gagueing the other materials, I measure most everything against the hook shank. Somehow thats easier than measuring hackle against the gap. However they probably arent perfect, luckily though fish arent as picky as I am, or most tiers I know. Ive csugt quite a few on a small deer hair with a hackle head fly Ive been tying a few of lately.

I've found parachute patterns require less precision with hackles. You can over-hackle a parachute somewhat without much problem. Webby feathers don't float a parachute very well, nor a regular dry. Webby absorbs water.

[BobHRAH 0]

The two best points made in this thread are 1) using the hook to determine the hackle size; and 2) and as Crackaig points out, the lack of standardization across hook brands and designs makes a gauge much less useful. As far as the Whiting hackle gauge, I find it difficult to use due to unclear markings (light line, dark line ???)

 

Thanks, Bob H

[Dave G. 0]

While Im not great at dries, I have tied many many many other flies all which include palmering hackle. I have tied quite a few dries already as well, but more simple patterns (Matts midge, griffiths, and hoppers) Ive also tied a few Adams dries. But lately Ive gotten into some parachute style Flies which require a bit more precision in my thoughts. While mine arent yet as good as some of the other dries Ive seen posted on here, I have gotten down the even and clean hackle placement. Sticks out strait, captured properly without stray fibers over the eye, etc...

 

As for gagueing the other materials, I measure most everything against the hook shank. Somehow thats easier than measuring hackle against the gap. However they probably arent perfect, luckily though fish arent as picky as I am, or most tiers I know. Ive csugt quite a few on a small deer hair with a hackle head fly Ive been tying a few of lately.

Like Gene I too feel parachute flies are easier to gauge than traditional ties and the parachute stem is the pivot of your built in gauge . Maybe you could get a gauge that can second as a key chain and at least it will be useful when you discard it. I think I used my free gauge about two times and gave it up.

[McFlyLures 0]

Well I think my biggest reason to get a gague is that it will keep me from removing feathers before realizing its the wrong size. Which has happened a few times. I tend to forget I removed them, and dont get them out of storage the next time I tie a different size. So it will keep me from using up as much hackle. But maybe Im wrong?

[dflanagan 0]

I bought a gauge a few months ago. I've tried using it but the feathers it tells me to pick still end up looking wrong on the fly. Probably due to different thicknesses in body materials, as mentioned above. Now I just eyeball it or use the hook as a gauge.

 

Also, I usually leave the feather attached to the neck, saddle, or cardboard while checking it. I have a bad habit of leaving materials sitting on my desk but if I do that with feathers the cats run off with them.

[Gene L 0]

I've got two, somewhere, a white one and a green one. They're difficult to see unless you use really dark hackle.

[SilverCreek 0]

While Im not great at dries, I have tied many many many other flies all which include palmering hackle. I have tied quite a few dries already as well, but more simple patterns (Matts midge, griffiths, and hoppers) Ive also tied a few Adams dries. But lately Ive gotten into some parachute style Flies which require a bit more precision in my thoughts. While mine arent yet as good as some of the other dries Ive seen posted on here, I have gotten down the even and clean hackle placement. Sticks out strait, captured properly without stray fibers over the eye, etc...

 

As for gagueing the other materials, I measure most everything against the hook shank. Somehow thats easier than measuring hackle against the gap. However they probably arent perfect, luckily though fish arent as picky as I am, or most tiers I know. Ive csugt quite a few on a small deer hair with a hackle head fly Ive been tying a few of lately.

 

 

Like Flytire and Crackaig, I do not use hackle gauges. What I take with me is a white 3X5 card that I use as a background against which to examine the hackle. I just eyeball them and with experience you can be spot on. Just like I can look at and feel a section of tippet and know what "X" size it is. I know that those of use that have fly fished a while can tell the "X" size of a tippet. Well, tippets are one thousandths of an inch difference. If I can tell 1/1000 of an inch difference in a tippet, I sure can tell a size 16 hackle from an 18, from a 20, from a 22, etc. on a feather. It is not that hard to do.

 

Take the hackle and bend in in front of the 3X5 card. If you need to start, at least try to guess the hackle size suing this method before you actually measure it with a gauge. You will soon develop your "eye" so you won't need a gauge anymore.

 

And I will say that you are wrong about parachutes requiring more "precision" that palmered hackle. Differences in the length of hackle on a parachute really do not affect the angle the fly sits on the water as a standard dry fly. So the hackle can be oversized and in fact I tie my parachutes with slightly longer hackle than a palmered dry fly. BUT you do need to decide whether to wind the hackle concave side up or down and you have to be consistent in that so that your flies sit the same way. Concave down will point the hackle tips down and the fly will sit a bit higher. Concave up and the fly sits lower.

 

You also have to decide whether to finish the fly by tying off the hackle and fly off at the head of the fly or finishing the fly by whip finishing the hackle off on the post.

 

I want my parachutes to be IN the film so I wind the hackle concave facing up and whip finishing on the post.

 

This fly is finished off at the eye.

 

 

This fly is finished off on the post.