Levels of Fly Tying

[rolsen 0]

In our language the "expert" is an interesting word. We use the word "expertti" and "Pertti" is a good Finnish male name. An "expert" or "ex-pertti" can also mean that Pertti has gone through some intimate surgical process and is now know as Helen.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

Ok I been reading this and thinking alot about what makes you an expert tier. I have watched many tiers tie from beginners to the most seasoned of fly tiers. The difference is time at the vice. Have I ever seen an expert? My answer would have to be NO. Have I seen exceptionally talented tiers? Yes. I feel to be an expert at tying you would have to master every technique, style, material, and pattern. There are many tyers out there that are great at tying a certain style or type of fly but can't tie another type. As an example one of the guys I look up to and admire their tying ability is Fred Hannie he can tie the most realistic incredible flies you ever seen but I bet if he was to tie an intruder or a spey fly or a full dressed salmon fly they wouldn't be quite as impressive.

[Roofish 0]

I have been tying alittle more than 2 yrs, I have the Peak Pedestal Rotary vise, Dr Slick tying tool set & an assortment of materials.

 

After reaing this it is clear to me that I fall well below a Beginner.

 

I can't tie from recipes as I usually don't have all the correct materials. I have tied a few decent Buggers & Clousers, that look like said fly.

 

Of the hundreds of others, I've tied I haven't clue what you would call them. This always annoys the blank_____ out of me. As I want to get better & have those nice looking fly boxes you guys have.

 

But my son & I catch fish with them.

 

Very Frustrated

[Piker20 0]

I have been tying alittle more than 2 yrs, I have the Peak Pedestal Rotary vise, Dr Slick tying tool set & an assortment of materials.

 

After reaing this it is clear to me that I fall well below a Beginner.

 

I can't tie from recipes as I usually don't have all the correct materials. I have tied a few decent Buggers & Clousers, that look like said fly.

 

Of the hundreds of others, I've tied I haven't clue what you would call them. This always annoys the blank_____ out of me. As I want to get better & have those nice looking fly boxes you guys have.

 

But my son & I catch fish with them.

 

Very Frustrated

 

You answer your own statement there. The fish are always the judge of our efforts. Everybody on this forum, I guarentee it, has tied a fly that just looks 1mil $ and hasn't raised a fish to it, yet the same day fish are leaping onto the bank and flapping toward the car just to munch that tatty mess that fell out the vice one night.

You will slowly build up materials to tie a broader range of flies but do you really need to? Spend 2mins on this forum and its obvious we all have way more flies than we can ever wet and really if you are catching fish dont worry about having to tie lots of different styles.

[mikechell 0]

Well, I just went through this thread from beginning to end. There are several observations I wish to share.

1) Many of you have tried to define what differentiates "ranks" of tying experience. But you've all used tying as the basis for that. This causes a dilemma ... since the terms "beginner", "intermediate" and "expert" are general terms used for any skill set. You can't determine a person skill level based on just one skill of a "skill set."

2) The more experienced of you are the first ones to say CRAP. I type that with all due respect. You guys who have been tying for decades are too humble, by far.

 

Now ... some of you have defined the levels more accurately.

Beginner ... The tier who needs to read every step of the recipe, wondering what each material listed is ... perhaps needing a video to properly understand how to do some particular step. The beginner is learning everything.

 

Intermediate ... This person is capable of following an SBS, only occasionally needing to refer to a book or other source for an understanding of material or procedure. This person is still learning some of the basics, but is fully capable of learning them. The intermediate tier is tying familiar patterns well and experimenting with new techniques.

 

Expert ... The tier who is able to look at a fly, knows the materials and understands the procedures used to tie it. The expert might still need a recipe for a type of fly they've never tied before, but most of the procedures are within his ability. The expert might even need to practice a new technique a few times, but the "mechanics" of the technique are not beyond the tiers ability.

The learning curve changes with the expert. Most of the experimenting is self generated. You aren't trying someone else's "new technique" ... you are inventing your own. You might find out someone else already did, but you can come up with unique techniques on your own.

[Flyunder 0]

The thing I see change the most in a persons tying, as they progress, is their consistency and attention to detail. The more time they've spent at the vice, the more uniform their creations and more refined the finished fly looks. Proficiency comes with practice, speed comes with repetition, expertise comes from experience (good and bad).

Yes, I remember just wanting to get some semblance of the pattern I was trying to duplicate.

 

Moving from beginner to intermediate, I think, is a function of becoming familiar with the mechanics of the process. You become comfortable with material handling, placement, techniques, etc. and begin to understand some of the reasons why some things work and why they don't. When a tyer looks back at a new fly and is happy with the results, they can see improvement, a straight fly that is reasonably proportioned. They start to "get the hang of it". The one who feels they are getting the hang of it and have started feeling some pride in their creation will start considering themselves to be at an intermediate level.

 

An intermediate level is as far as anybody needs to go to create and enjoy tying functional flies. Any category after that becomes increasingly subjective.

This is so true, knowing the why's and how's of materials that we use to create our imitations is huge. This only comes with time at the vise coupled with time on the water.

[SCOwens 0]

Well, I think I find myself falling into the intermediate catagory. But with every new material that is released I find myself set back to a beginner. I will post a picture of the first EP Bait Fish I tied, and now how I tie them. It is night and day difference. But for sure I think a lot of it plays into your time behind the vise.

 

I can proudly say my first trout caught on the fly rod and the first redfish I caught on my flyrod were caught on flies that I tied myself. That to me is very gratifying.

[FishDragon 0]

I think the art of tying flies is a very big category and I can't think of anyone who is an expert in drys, salmon bugs, hairwings, spey, salwater, wets, nymphs and numerous other categories I left out.

 

That being said there are many accomplished tyers out there who are very good at one or two areas. I currently live in Atlantic Salmon country and though I do tie a few messy salmon flies my love is trout nymphs. The proportions to the real insect and imitating the insects with materials that have nothing to do with water borne insects. Alot of very talented tiers that I know have never tied a trout fly or anything under size 8. They are very good and would be experts in their area of tying. I have only ever tied a few drys in the last few years (something I aim to change) but I enjoy tying and fishing nymphs so much it is hard to change. I met a fellow last year who was tying mackerel flies at over 100 an hour, they were simple but he could make them all look the same and he was an expert at that one type of fly.

 

As long as your flies catch fish and you enjoy learning that is all you need.

 

As for being an expert or master they are out there but they are far and few between. Davie McPhail comes to mind because he is not only a very talented tyer but a very talented teacher as well but I don't think even he has mastered all categories of flies though I am sure he has the skillset to do so.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Lefty Kreh has a definition of "expert". It's a guy 100 miles from home with a slide show! Many great posts here. I have to agree with Peterjay, too complex & opinionated to really give a definitive answer. Beginners are always easy, as they're self proclaimed & just getting started. Beyond that, difficult to define.

 

Hopefully, we're all still learning, and that's what's important. When you stop learning you might as well stop living.

[Crotalus 0]

The thing I see change the most in a persons tying, as they progress, is their consistency and attention to detail. The more time they've spent at the vice, the more uniform their creations and more refined the finished fly looks. Proficiency comes with practice, speed comes with repetition, expertise comes from experience (good and bad).

 

I agree.

 

Consistency separates the intermediate from the novice, quickness and consistency separates the expert from the intermediate.

 

But with something as broad as fly tying you could be an expert at dries and a novice at saltwater, an expert on classic wets and a novice at spinning deer hair.

 

I am also discounting the fish catching ability of the flies as well because I dont believe that you have to tie perfect flies to catch fish. If that were the case i would still be trying to catch my first fish

[Bryon Anderson 0]

If I were going to try and rate fly tiers, I would probably go by the number of individual techniques they have mastered, rather than patterns or speed. I don't think speed really figures into skill level at all, but is simply a "symptom" (if you will) of expertise -- i.e., if you have a lot of techniques mastered, you will probably tie a little faster than someone who is still learning those same techniques. I've heard many commercial tiers say that speed mainly comes from preparation before tying - laying out all your wing pairs, hackles etc.- rather than from tying fast. In any case, as someone said earlier, speed only matters to commercial tiers anyway.

Same goes for patterns -- the more techniques you've mastered, the more patterns you'll effectively have "under your belt".

I would go so far as to say that anyone who has mastered 2/3 or more of the techniques in The Fly Tier's Benchside Reference by Ted Leeson and Jim Schollmeyer could arguably be called an expert tier.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

I guess I should add that when I say number of techniques "mastered", I mean the number of techniques that a tier can execute flawlessly the majority of the time. That would translate into things that many others have mentioned -- correct proportioning and consistency of appearance of the finished flies.

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

Ok I been reading this and thinking alot about what makes you an expert tier. I have watched many tiers tie from beginners to the most seasoned of fly tiers. The difference is time at the vice. Have I ever seen an expert? My answer would have to be NO. Have I seen exceptionally talented tiers? Yes. I feel to be an expert at tying you would have to master every technique, style, material, and pattern. There are many tyers out there that are great at tying a certain style or type of fly but can't tie another type. As an example one of the guys I look up to and admire their tying ability is Fred Hannie he can tie the most realistic incredible flies you ever seen but I bet if he was to tie an intruder or a spey fly or a full dressed salmon fly they wouldn't be quite as impressive.

 

This topic is an interesting read and i think Riff made a good point. There are a lot of tiers i see who only tie for their home waters or very specific ties that do not venture out of the box and explore all there is out there. As a traveler i see a need to really broaden ones pattern palette. Nothing wrong with staying in your own little niche' but you are going to be missing out.

 

So many different techniques and aspects of fly tying in general. Now Riff is one of those who could probably whip up anything for any species with little effort probably just through sites like this where we can all share successful local patterns from around the world.

 

Technology has blessed us and made it quite easy, i only started this stuff 3 years ago and took to it like a duck to water. Still i rekon have barely even touched the surface! And i know i am stuck in a specific style at the moment. I know in the next few years i want to start with spinning deer hair. I'd suggest i am a beginner.

[Rocco 0]

I have not fished with purchased flies for over 50 years! The few I buy are for disecting to see how they were made.

 

I'm way beyond a beginner but there is no way I could win a fly tying contest, make a living at it, or justify the expense to anyone of all the $s i have spent over the years.

 

It beats folding carboard boxes in the attic for entertainment and I do win prizes for teliing whoppers when I tell my wife that I am saving money doing it. It also produces some laughs for the fish.

 

Rocco

[nightheron 0]

I'm an angler first and a fly tyer somewhere down the line. Been doing it for forty years with a singular goal...to catch more and better fish than I can on anything I can purchase. I'm competitive with fish, not other tyers. I think the fish determine who is a novice or an expert. For me, fly tying and fly fishing can't be seperated. Tying flies to sit in a glass box is a foreign concept to me. I want every fly I tie to get destroyed. If it does, that fly was expert, if it doesnt...it was a novice fly. I've learned a few things in my forty years as a tyer, one...pretty flies don't necessarily catch fish and consequently ugly flies often will catch fish. So what is the real criteria for level advancement? Is it pretty flies with perfect proportions, nice heads efficiently tied in a box with 320 other patterns of equal perfection and beauty? Or is it the guy that can tie a fly for almost any water anywhere and catch quality fish consistently? In my case, when I can no longer fish for cats in the neighborhood as my wife pushes me around in a wheelchair, I will have tied my last fly! Incidentally, I can still get to the water so I'm not tempting neighborhood cats yet, but when I'm relegated to that I do promise to go barbless. My other answer is this, when you can tie every fly in your arsenal without a vise, you are an expert!