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Mark Knapp

How do you feel about this site?

How do you feel about this site?  

66 members have voted

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6 hours ago, knotjoe said:

I think the site is just fine the way it is/was

Given the stated premise by moderators that “nothing is changing, it’s just current principles being put into written terms” this is a rather perplexing array of questions for a poll.  If there was an option of “This poll is a solution looking for a problem” I might have chosen that one for my vote.😆  Why?  I simply googled flytyingforum and constructive criticism and clicked more results like these.  Google will dump upon you well over a decade of politely stated and worded responses to forum submissions, questions, and displays of work.  This is impressive, try it and see.

Here’s a bit of thought on reality and flytying which may offend some, but I think it’s pretty accurate.  Fly submissions, in many cases, are not only displays of fish catching attributes or pure functionality.  This is especially true of named & famed recipes which often are functional, but also have a history of tradition and are often evaluated (at least partially) as an art form.  Once a person submits their example of a named and known pattern, that is an undeniable declaration of their pursuit of proper proportion, color, and material usage.  Follows logically such submissions will be evaluated and commented on accordingly.   The attributes addressed or critiqued in a given submission may or may not have anything to do with how well the fly functions and fishes, but those criteria were accepted by the tier who submitted the named and described recipe.  If easily offended, make up your own darn flies or recipes and tell us why they’re great.

Full disclosure, I’m a warmwater bass/bluegill kinda guy at the vise and we really don’t have these issues often.  For the aspiring troutsman at the vise, they need to understand that they are tacitly accepting these critiques and associated evaluative criteria when they chose to submit well known recipes.  It’s a different type of tying and often has an inseparable academic rigor associated with it.  No pain, no gain, know that going in if anything less than 100% positive approval hurts and always remember indifference hurts worse than anything in the long run.

 

I didn't put in the question “This poll is a solution looking for a problem” because the problem came looking for me, people asked me to try to make things better, I did not go looking for a problem.

One of the nicest guys ever to post on this site and one of the best fly tiers ever to post on this site stopped coming here. I asked him why. I didn't become a moderator and decide what I could do to stir things up a bit. I was approached by concerned members, then I asked the moderators to help, then they asked me to help them by becoming help a moderator.

Since I have been coming to this site, there has been a problem of limited contributorship by newer tiers and ladies. People have been talking about it for at least two years.

There are at least a few people that feel like everything that is posted isn't or shouldn't be open for critique. 5 out of 44 or just over 11 percent of the people that voted.

15 out of 44 or just over 1/3 said it was important to them if someone left or didn't contribute because of harsh treatment to others. Some did leave, and others don't post. To me that's more than a solution looking for a problem. Again, not a huge problem but some of us think we can do better.

Less than half that voted said the site was fine the way it was (20 out of 44). That means more than half (55 percent) said it could be better.

 

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2 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

Since I have been coming to this site, there has been a problem of limited contributorship by newer tiers and ladies. People have been talking about it for at least two years.

Now that folks can actually register and join the site again, I’ll venture a guess things will pick-up in the future with regard to new membership and participation.  I’ve visited this site for quite some time and only recently was able to register and join.  Some folks quit trying after while, they may try again later or they may not.  It’s a consequence of spam attack shutdowns.

Didn’t intend to imply you were stirring things up, just that I couldn’t find any evidence of folks who were run-off or discouraged by unwanted criticism.  I’ll take your word on the private conversations and no reason not to shoot for improvement if one thinks it possible. 👍

As for the ladies?  Know plenty who love to fish, not a single one really into the fishing/tying conversation and forum thing.  Color me skeptical of this quest because it’s just not a draw for them.  A few do blog, some prefer smaller club forums, but overall not likely in a wide reaching public forum.  I’ll postulate they “prefer a more intimate setting” on these matters or at least one more germane to their participant interests locally.

 

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I didn't know that it wasn't possible to become a member for a while. This is the first I've heard of that. We do have a few recent postings of people calling themselves new members.

You are probably right about the ladies and their preferences. I have taught at a place called "Becoming an outdoor woman", they seem to be much more at ease around a lot of women. I was one of just a few men teaching everything from Running a chainsaw" to "Fly Casting" to "Trapping". It was very well run by women and catered to just women. It was a blast to teach there. I would probably do it again if asked.

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15 hours ago, Mark Knapp said:

I didn't know that it wasn't possible to become a member for a while. This is the first I've heard of that. We do have a few recent postings of people calling themselves new members.

Yep. Back over the past winter/spring we had some major issues with spammers joining at the rate of about 1 every 5 seconds. Must have been some sort of spam software program to be able to join that many that fast. The site software was due for an update and it was easier to just stop registration for a few months till we got it updated so there was about 4-6 months or so of no new members because of that issue.

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I like this site a lot, in spite of being intimidated by Mark and Mike's good looks and manly physiques.   

Seriously, everyone has been very nice to me.  We have some nice old guys who are in their twilight years, some of us who are following closely, some very talented young people, and people in their prime.  We are from MS to MN, FL to AK.  I think that overall we get along well.

That being said, there is a general lack of manners and graciousness in our republic, as late.  We need to be vigilant not to get contentious about something as enjoyable and non-threatening as fly tying.  I think Mark is going to help this site.  If what he is doing is striking a nerve, perhaps you need to ask yourself why you are sensitive about that.

 

 

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I really like it and always have enjoy the interchange of knowledge. I've even accepted Mike's regular condescension, which of course, is regular.

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Hey Darrel, 44-34 CowCollege over 6th ranked and last years NatlChamps LSU!!!!

HALE STATE!!!!    HE!! YEH.  How bout them Bulldogs!

Women tiers ain’t likely to happen but more international members could happen.  LilDave from Australia. There’s  some that we’re here from UK, Italy, and beyond.   Anybody remember any?  Spammer problem lately for new tiers registering?

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5 hours ago, DarrellP said:

I like this site a lot, in spite of being intimidated by Mark and Mike's good looks and manly physiques.  

I guess we'll have to try and tone it down a little bit.

Seriously, everyone has been very nice to me.  We have some nice old guys who are in their twilight years, some of us who are following closely, some very talented young people, and people in their prime.  We are from MS to MN, FL to AK.  I think that overall we get along well.

That being said, there is a general lack of manners and graciousness in our republic, as late.  We need to be vigilant not to get contentious about something as enjoyable and non-threatening as fly tying.  I think Mark is going to help this site.  If what he is doing is striking a nerve, perhaps you need to ask yourself why you are sensitive about that.

I agree, I can't understand why someones "right" to be curt or rude is more important, in some peoples minds, than another person feeling harshly treated here, or not wanting to contribute because of it. Especially if people have left the site because of it.

 

 

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4 hours ago, DarrellP said:

Mike's good looks and manly physique

Thank you ... I'm glad someone's noticed.

4 hours ago, feathers5 said:

Mike's regular condescension, which of course, is regular.

I apologize for any time I've given off that "vibe".  It's hard to be humble when you have this manly physique and these good looks.

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2 hours ago, mikechell said:

Thank you ... I'm glad someone's noticed.

I apologize for any time I've given off that "vibe".  It's hard to be humble when you have this manly physique and these good looks.

Just yankin' your chain, Mike.

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I hesitate to comment, only because I am a new member with limited contributions, so take this for what it is worth:

Trying to grow membership while at the same time eliminating all negativity seems an impossible task.  Sure, fly tying and fly fishing are likely the least “controversial” sports/hobbies/pastime” out there, but they are not without bad apples.

One has to look no further than the recent thread covering “Respect.”  That thread laid bare that what is acceptable to one is wholly unacceptable to another.  Reading through, common themes did emerge, and a total newbie could leave that thread with a pretty good idea of what is acceptable, what is not, and also what might be borderline...which I’d say was the whole idea!

Point is, if you bring in more people, expect a wide range of experience, attitude, and ideas about what is good/bad/etc.  Worth noting, simply because you may not agree with one’s tone or delivery, personal attacks aside, does not mean you cannot learn something from that person.

Things change with expanded participation and a purely homogeneous group would become quite boring quite quickly.

As far as bringing in the ladies, good luck.  I am a member of a few other similarish forums and I’d venture to say it is a 25:1 ratio.  In each of these forums women are treated with kid gloves so to speak and are immune from any harsh criticism.  This from guys you’d swear would have no problem cussing out their mothers.  I am not one, clearly, but I think their online time is spent in more truly “social” type settings.

One last comment on growing the forum: I am not a techie and have no idea how this works, but if there is a way to get elevated Google (holding my nose) or Bing search presence, folks would be stumbling through the door in droves.  Just the other day I searched a question about a new to me Renzetti on the interwebs and I discovered my answer in a years old thread on THE FLY TYING FORUM!  Imagine if “how do I tie a fly?” directs you here.

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Was gone for too long I guess!!  I'm back to being a new guy again!!  I've always liked this site, did swaps and trades and even sold a few things.  

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I see a some "hostile" critique on another forum. Some people get jumped on about things that can be made in a positive way. My approach is as follows- "May I suggest...," "You might try...," "You might consider...,"

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On 9/25/2020 at 3:11 PM, chugbug27 said:

The moderators should just do their best. Rules are fine if they're plain and straightforward, but the only thing that really matters is the moderators' actions.

Agreed.

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